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Would this tactic be effective against "hyper dunking?"
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Kashadin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-05-25 18:51:51 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kashadin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kashadin wrote:

Why?



You really can't think of why? The whole "same account" part might cause a GM to raise his eyebrows.

If you don't believe me, by all means, put in a ticket and ask.



My argument against that was in the post you quoted.

If it is such a issue as to warrant banning a easy change would be to make any ships that belong to a toon on the same acct disappear as soon as another toon logs into the same acct, I'm sure gankers would love that idea.


Not gonna happen. This isa perfect logoffski handed to you on a platter. Forcefully crash your cleint and log back on an alt to save any ships including but not limited to titans...



That was my point, in the case of "logging in my logi to fix my freighter" the 1st toon is being kept in space because of something that I have no control over in a ship that has no way to fight back outside of concord showing up.

That being said I think that it is highly unlikely to work as it would require you to be ganked in a place that you have the 2nd toon and for you to:

1: Log into the the new
2: Get in system
2: Land on grid
3: Lock Freighter
4: start reps and have them land

All the while your ship has lost any bonuses from piloting skill, is now sitting there like a lump (to be fair it was pretty much doing this before), and the ganker is still shooting you. If you can manage all this then you were prolly not going to die anyways.
Siegfried Cohenberg
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling
Freighter Friends
#22 - 2015-05-25 19:02:17 UTC
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
Ganks generally happen very quickly. Your ship would be dead before you loaded grid with second account (assuming you were logged off where your freighter was tackled)

Your ship also loses all bonuses when you log off cuting your ehp by up to 25%


this is a myth you don't lose any ehp for logging off
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#23 - 2015-05-25 19:17:21 UTC
Siegfried Cohenberg wrote:
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
Ganks generally happen very quickly. Your ship would be dead before you loaded grid with second account (assuming you were logged off where your freighter was tackled)

Your ship also loses all bonuses when you log off cuting your ehp by up to 25%


this is a myth you don't lose any ehp for logging off

is correct

you're still plugged into the ship.

If you ejected you would lose it but not from log or dc.

Also this is a silly thread...but I like it.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-05-25 19:28:21 UTC
Kashadin wrote:
I would assume it is a bump followed by a alpha gank, if not then it's not really all that hyper and this game is starting to go off into left field with its terms.


A hyperdunk is the proces of committing a gank by a single character applying all the dps and cycling through ships - I believe the process is dumping a ton of unpiloted catalysts from an orca in one spot, and a bunch of shuttles/noobships elsewhere. The ganker attacks with catalyst one, gets concorded, warps and gets in to shuttle one while under the GCC so concord warps to that and concords it, the pilot warps to catalyst two, doing damage while concord warps back from the shuttle dump to concord catalyst 2, then its back and forth between catalysts and shuttles with concord pinging back and forth behind. By the nature of it, it takes quite a bit of time.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2015-05-25 19:37:40 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Damen Apol wrote:

You log on to the same account with an alt in a logi ship, find where your bump-tackled ship is and rep it up. Until ganker either calls in more backup to beat your reps, suicides on your logi ship, or gives up.


I'm almost positive you would be perma banned for doing that.


I would guess it was safe, after all, it could be argued that the pilot had no say in his first character staying logged in ("I logged him off, it was the other character who kept him on field"), and as only one is under active control, its not getting two characters on the sly.

Of course, i'm sure there would be ways to exploit this, particularly with long-cycle modules (get your alt agressed then have a second character participate whilst the firsts module is still running), but I can't thing of many immediately - maybe fleet boosters, certainly cynos, but then you would need a second account anyway to invite your second character in to the first characters fleet. Maybe the new entosis link too, basically anything with a multiple-minute cycle time.

As for should it be allowable? Well, at least the guys being pro-active, so I'd urge on the side of clever thinking being a fair counter to clever thinking.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#26 - 2015-05-25 19:41:30 UTC
Effective? Yes.
Difficult to pull off reliably? Also yes.
Bound to create a threadnought as the GMs' can't provide an official answer? Very yes.
Kashadin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-05-25 19:47:34 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Kashadin wrote:
I would assume it is a bump followed by a alpha gank, if not then it's not really all that hyper and this game is starting to go off into left field with its terms.


A hyperdunk is the proces of committing a gank by a single character applying all the dps and cycling through ships - I believe the process is dumping a ton of unpiloted catalysts from an orca in one spot, and a bunch of shuttles/noobships elsewhere. The ganker attacks with catalyst one, gets concorded, warps and gets in to shuttle one while under the GCC so concord warps to that and concords it, the pilot warps to catalyst two, doing damage while concord warps back from the shuttle dump to concord catalyst 2, then its back and forth between catalysts and shuttles with concord pinging back and forth behind. By the nature of it, it takes quite a bit of time.



I propose a new term then.

"slow burn gank" or "grinder"

Makes more sense since (i love english) there is nothing hyper nor dunk-like with the current version.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#28 - 2015-05-25 19:52:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Effective? Yes.
Difficult to pull off reliably? Also yes.
Bound to create a threadnought as the GMs' can't provide an official answer? Very yes.

Seems like an ingenious solution, but will take some planning to pull off.

I don't think it would be considered an exploit as your initial character is being prevented from logging off through no action of your own. If you yourself prevented your character from logging off and then logged on another character to provide some kind of in game benefit, then yes that may be considered an exploit.

Who knows with CCP though, its hard to tell until you put some test cases before them and see how they react.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#29 - 2015-05-25 19:53:22 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Effective? Yes.
Difficult to pull off reliably? Also yes.
Bound to create a threadnought as the GMs' can't provide an official answer? Very yes.

It's so meta we may have to have the threadnought before anyone actually pulls it off...onwards to page three o/

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#30 - 2015-05-25 19:53:49 UTC
Kashadin wrote:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Kashadin wrote:
I would assume it is a bump followed by a alpha gank, if not then it's not really all that hyper and this game is starting to go off into left field with its terms.


A hyperdunk is the proces of committing a gank by a single character applying all the dps and cycling through ships - I believe the process is dumping a ton of unpiloted catalysts from an orca in one spot, and a bunch of shuttles/noobships elsewhere. The ganker attacks with catalyst one, gets concorded, warps and gets in to shuttle one while under the GCC so concord warps to that and concords it, the pilot warps to catalyst two, doing damage while concord warps back from the shuttle dump to concord catalyst 2, then its back and forth between catalysts and shuttles with concord pinging back and forth behind. By the nature of it, it takes quite a bit of time.



I propose a new term then.

"slow burn gank" or "grinder"

Makes more sense since (i love english) there is nothing hyper nor dunk-like with the current version.

Or it might be easier if you simply adopt the term hyper-dunking; after all that is the term that anyone who keeps up with events knows it as. *winks*
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#31 - 2015-05-25 20:01:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Kashadin wrote:
I propose a new term then.

"slow burn gank" or "grinder"

Makes more sense since (i love english) there is nothing hyper nor dunk-like with the current version.

You'll be hard pressed to gain much traction for a new term for it. There's even official clarification on the use of the tactic that refers to it as hyperdunking because it's been called that since the bowhead was released and it became an effective way to semi-solo gank:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=400977
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-05-25 20:05:50 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Effective? Yes.
Difficult to pull off reliably? Also yes.
Bound to create a threadnought as the GMs' can't provide an official answer? Very yes.

It's so meta we may have to have the threadnought before anyone actually pulls it off...onwards to page three o/


I forum lawyered a counter-gank tactic before it was executed...
Reislier
#33 - 2015-05-25 20:49:48 UTC
this is worth trying.. just for the politics alone.

Be nice. If nice not work, be civil. If civil not work, beat with iron pipe till bloody and still.
Degnar Oskold
Moira.
#34 - 2015-05-25 21:43:10 UTC
When is the last time that anyone was even hyperdunked? Looking at zkillboard I can't find any solo freighter ganks for over a week at least.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#35 - 2015-05-25 22:07:14 UTC
Degnar Oskold wrote:
When is the last time that anyone was even hyperdunked? Looking at zkillboard I can't find any solo freighter ganks for over a week at least.



Hyperdunks are rare because the dunker puts himself in a position where the investment and logistics of time and staging of equipment can very easily be put to waste by even one anti-ganker.

Hence it appears to be more of a "cool move" than a cost-effective one, as far as ganking a freighter is concerned. From what I have seen of it, it looks very tedious.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#36 - 2015-05-25 22:16:02 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
The most effective tactic against hyper-dunking is to sell your hauler character and use the proceeds to pay for your transport needs.

People like Red Frog are quite good at avoiding problems and are a reasonable price. Plus, they take the risk. All you do is fire them a couple of million ISKies, tell them where to pick up and drop off and then go have some fun doing anything but hauling.

When the choice is between risking your ship and whatever it's carrying or tossing some guy a million a jump to run from Jita to Amarr and risking nothing, I know which I'd choose.

Mr Epeen Cool

Someone just revealed one of their characters flies for Red Frog ;)








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Damen Apol
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#37 - 2015-05-25 22:42:38 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
The most effective tactic against hyper-dunking is to sell your hauler character and use the proceeds to pay for your transport needs.

People like Red Frog are quite good at avoiding problems and are a reasonable price. Plus, they take the risk. All you do is fire them a couple of million ISKies, tell them where to pick up and drop off and then go have some fun doing anything but hauling.

When the choice is between risking your ship and whatever it's carrying or tossing some guy a million a jump to run from Jita to Amarr and risking nothing, I know which I'd choose.

Mr Epeen Cool


Yea, I don't even use RFF because their prices are hilariously expensive. I'm just asking from a theoretical perspective having thought of it as a potential answer.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#38 - 2015-05-26 02:31:57 UTC
Degnar Oskold wrote:
When is the last time that anyone was even hyperdunked? Looking at zkillboard I can't find any solo freighter ganks for over a week at least.
Who said freighters are the only targets? POS arrays are taken down constantly with this tactic, though a little more of a lottery as you can't scan the array to see what it might drop first.

And its called hyper dunking because it is a much faster way of solo ganking stuff than having to wait out the pesky GCC flag which otherwise keeps you from warping in a ship or boarding one of your own ships, but boarding someone else's ship is apparently perfectly fine.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#39 - 2015-05-26 04:06:05 UTC
Just dont fly afk.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#40 - 2015-05-26 13:00:06 UTC
000Hunter000 wrote:
Now a while ago there was another thread talking about bumping someones ship again and again.
....

IMO, atleast they should change the system so if u bump someone repeatedly u will get flagged to that person so they can shoot at you Twisted

Atleast this way the bumper has a risk as well, i mean it's a sandbox right?


Good idea - then the freighter being bumped is free to shoot back at the guy bumping him. What?

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.