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Please, for the sake of my sanity, introduce Tags4Standings already

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13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2015-05-26 00:53:58 UTC
This is like if I went to WoW forums and said "please allow me to start a raid already attuned because I don't want to grind it".

There's progression in games, otherwise theres not accomplishment or reward. How does allowing tags4standing improve the gameplay at all, or give it more life and depth?

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#62 - 2015-05-26 01:19:05 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
This is like if I went to WoW forums and said "please allow me to start a raid already attuned because I don't want to grind it".

There's progression in games, otherwise theres not accomplishment or reward. How does allowing tags4standing improve the gameplay at all, or give it more life and depth?


How long since you played? It has changed.
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#63 - 2015-05-26 01:21:17 UTC
Endecroix wrote:
I've worked hard to get my standings with all factions.

My suggestion would be rather than giving you a easy handin tags type method we find a way for someone like me to help out someone like you thereby creating content rather than dumbing down mechanisms.


Like if you assist someone on a storyline mission you get a part of the faction standings increase?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#64 - 2015-05-26 01:21:30 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
How does allowing tags4standing improve the gameplay at all, or give it more life and depth?

How does shooting red crosses give anything more life? It drains it a lot.
Sykaotic
Doomheim
#65 - 2015-05-26 01:58:45 UTC
This is the 1st PvE is hard thread I have seen.

PvE to stronk.

As Bjork sang... "I've seen it all" Big smile
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#66 - 2015-05-26 02:12:06 UTC
Endecroix wrote:
I've worked hard to get my standings with all factions.

My suggestion would be rather than giving you a easy handin tags type method we find a way for someone like me to help out someone like you thereby creating content rather than dumbing down mechanisms.

If only you could sell me something that I could use to increase my standings.

Like some kind of tags.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#67 - 2015-05-26 02:14:18 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
This is like if I went to WoW forums and said "please allow me to start a raid already attuned because I don't want to grind it".

There's progression in games, otherwise theres not accomplishment or reward. How does allowing tags4standing improve the gameplay at all, or give it more life and depth?


I could argue that EVE is a fundamentally different game. But it is easier to let a dev do that for me:
CCP Soniclover wrote:
...telling you that you cannot do a level four mission because you are not ready for it is not really ‘EVE’. We allow people to fly into low sec and null sec on the first day. How much you risk is up to you. If you want to fly your destroyer into a level three mission why should we stop you? We should warn you that you may not be ready but it should be your decision.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2015-05-26 02:37:06 UTC  |  Edited by: 13kr1d1
That CCP dev/rep/gm whatever they are, they are new blood to the game. They don't know what EvE is supposed to be.

The idea of disallowing L3 missions is for progression. Yes, you can fly into lowsec on day one, but you're not going to be able to do much there, because you have no DPS due to SKILL POINT PROGRESSION locking you out.

The faction things are "how much do I trust this person to give them a dangerous and important mission for my empire/corp"?

That is EvE. Trust.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2015-05-26 02:42:30 UTC
It doesn't make sense for a L4 NPC to give you a big assignment if you haven't proven yourself capable to take on small ****.

That'd be like goonswarm giving me a titan just because "I wanna try it". Not going to happen. It's about trust/reliability, and to completely wipe out this PvE/gameplay aspect in the name of expediency is exactly what turns EvE from a real living universe into a facebook game with explosions and excel sheets. I want depth to my gameplay. EvE doesn't need to be incongruent to in-game/in-universe logic simply because people want the game to be faster to play.

Load up cracks or hacks in a single player game if you want to get to high level content immediately.

That's what this particular CCP doesn't understand. Lowsec isn't high level content.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2015-05-26 02:43:21 UTC
The one thing CCP should be looking into fixing right now is the insane website problem. Posts over a certain length will not go through their system so they have to be broken up into separate posts.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#71 - 2015-05-26 06:37:24 UTC
I understand the objections to tags being able to instantly get good faction standings, but that's not how the Sec Status tags work, and it wouldn't be how these would work either; they could only get you back from -10 to 0. If you want locators, missions, or better station taxes, one would still have to earn them the old fashioned way, it just makes the bottomless hole of bad standings not so bottomless.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Endecroix
Doomheim
#72 - 2015-05-26 06:56:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Endecroix
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
[quote=Endecroix]If only you could sell me something that I could use to increase my standings.

Like some kind of tags.


The only way I could see that working would be say if CCP did the following, for example:

Player A: + 10 to Amarr
Player B: + 4 to Amarr
Player C: -10 to Amarr

Player A and B can buy Faction Tags from respective Amarr corps for LP (no differentiation for FW or bonus), player A can buy the Tier 1-5 tags due to their + 10 standing, Player B can only buy Tier 1 and 2 due to their + 4 standing.

Player C has to use Tier 5 to get them to -8, Tier 4 to get them to -6, and Tier 3 to get them to -4. Therefore, only Player A can supply the market with what they need. Player C can get to -2 using Tier 2 tags and back to 0 using Tier 1 tags both of which can be provided by Players A and B. There would be no tags that could raise faction standing over 0.

This would achieve a few things:

ISK sink using LP store
Provide players with high standings a reason to have those high standings.
Provide players with with low standings access to the board to gain further standings or to travel safely.

I think that would be agreeable for most tbh.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#73 - 2015-05-26 07:09:44 UTC
Endecroix wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
[quote=Endecroix]If only you could sell me something that I could use to increase my standings.

Like some kind of tags.


The only way I could see that working would be say if CCP did the following, for example:

Player A: + 10 to Amarr
Player B: + 4 to Amarr
Player C: -10 to Amarr

Player A and B can buy Faction Tags from respective Amarr corps for LP (no differentiation for FW or bonus), player A can buy the Tier 1-5 tags due to their + 10 standing, Player B can only buy Tier 1 and 2 due to their + 4 standing.

Player C has to use Tier 5 to get them to -8, Tier 4 to get them to -6, and Tier 3 to get them to -4. Therefore, only Player A can supply the market with what they need. Player C can get to -2 using Tier 2 tags and back to 0 using Tier 1 tags both of which can be provided by Players A and B. There would be no tags that could raise faction standing over 0.

This would achieve a few things:

ISK sink using LP store
Provide players with high standings a reason to have those high standings.
Provide players with with low standings access to the board to gain further standings or to travel safely.

I think that would be agreeable for most tbh.


No. Absolutely not. LP is already far to valuable for a resource that can be infinitely farmed and created in the safety of High Sec. Tags for standing would be better served if they were similar to clone solider tags, such that Low/NPC null actually continue to develop unique resources, further differentiating and supporting them as unique areas.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#74 - 2015-05-26 09:52:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
Zappity wrote:
Yes, I know data centers exist but these are not repeatable and don't give a high enough boost for Excellent faction standings.

I decided I wanted a character with >7 faction standings. I followed the Faction Standings Repair Plan (props to the author btw, excellent job). It took me three weeks of casual play to reach my goal. Now that I finally have the standings required for my original goal I feel burnt out and couldn't be bothered going through with my plan!

I hate highsec PvE. I don't enjoy grinding. I DON'T PLAY THIS GAME FOR THE MISSIONS! And I can guarantee that many other players would prefer me out there doing something risky instead of wasting time grinding in highsec.

CCP, please just let me pay a player who does enjoy this game play instead of grinding it myself. It is working for sec status - please just unlock repeats on data centers or introduce Tags4Standings.

It shouldn't be easy to increase your standing with an ENTIRE faction in eve. You are wanting to become a hero to a massive empire in the space of a couple of days.

If you were talking about corporation standing that is possible to get above 7 quite easily, but faction standings are purposely meant to be a long term goal as they should be.

I do think the mission system could do with an overhaul though, add in more interesting ways in which you can increase your standing such as more exciting missions and pvp and some industrial activities. Redoing missions could actually be a very good step to revitalise this game as almost everyone who starts the game runs missions first so they are a sort of gateway into the game.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#75 - 2015-05-26 09:54:02 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
It doesn't make sense for a L4 NPC to give you a big assignment if you haven't proven yourself capable to take on small ****.

That'd be like goonswarm giving me a titan just because "I wanna try it". Not going to happen. It's about trust/reliability, and to completely wipe out this PvE/gameplay aspect in the name of expediency is exactly what turns EvE from a real living universe into a facebook game with explosions and excel sheets. I want depth to my gameplay. EvE doesn't need to be incongruent to in-game/in-universe logic simply because people want the game to be faster to play.

Load up cracks or hacks in a single player game if you want to get to high level content immediately.

That's what this particular CCP doesn't understand. Lowsec isn't high level content.

The point is that EVE is meant to be a player-driven sandbox rather than a NPC-driven one. If a noob wants to jump straight into a titan then good on them. They will lose it but they should be allowed to do it (and pretty much can within a few months). They will lose it, and so they should. But it should be their decision.

This should be the same for NPC interaction. If I want to go and do a particular 'high level' thing that I'm not really ready for then it shouldn't be gated so I cannot. If I lose my ship then good.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#76 - 2015-05-26 10:07:35 UTC
Zappity wrote:
If I want to go and do a particular 'high level' thing that I'm not really ready for then it shouldn't be gated so I cannot. If I lose my ship then good.

By this logic you should be able to fly any ship in the game from day one even though you haven't trained the skills. You are stepping far into special snowflake territory with these comments.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2015-05-26 10:09:30 UTC

Moac Tor wrote:
Zappity wrote:
If I want to go and do a particular 'high level' thing that I'm not really ready for then it shouldn't be gated so I cannot. If I lose my ship then good.

By this logic you should be able to fly any ship in the game from day one even though you haven't trained the skills. You are stepping far into special snowflake territory with these comments.


You can if you pay enough ISK. Did you know how the Character Bazaar works?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#78 - 2015-05-26 10:11:15 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

Moac Tor wrote:
Zappity wrote:
If I want to go and do a particular 'high level' thing that I'm not really ready for then it shouldn't be gated so I cannot. If I lose my ship then good.

By this logic you should be able to fly any ship in the game from day one even though you haven't trained the skills. You are stepping far into special snowflake territory with these comments.


You can if you pay enough ISK. Did you know how the Character Bazaar works?


Someone has still trained those skills.
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2015-05-26 10:12:02 UTC  |  Edited by: 13kr1d1
Yes, this has been a carefully crafted troll thread. Well done.

if its supposed to be player driven, then remove all NPCs and force players to fill the empire roles of handing out missions to players... oh wait, that'd be boring as **** and no one would sit there for days to do that.

Contravening basic logic, by asking to bypass NPC tests of reliability in order to achieve higher risk/higher pay missions, is as absurd as forcing players to be mission givers for NPC empires.

If you want it to be "no NPCS allowed", that means getting rid of concord, all of the four empires, and even the pirate factions, so say goodbye to your pirate faction frig BPs.

What a troll of a thread.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#80 - 2015-05-26 10:14:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Moac Tor wrote:
Zappity wrote:
If I want to go and do a particular 'high level' thing that I'm not really ready for then it shouldn't be gated so I cannot. If I lose my ship then good.

By this logic you should be able to fly any ship in the game from day one even though you haven't trained the skills. You are stepping far into special snowflake territory with these comments.

Reductio ad absurdio. I never suggested that skill barriers should be lessened. Forced NPC interaction is a very different mechanic, and one that CCP seems to agree should be reduced. I pretty much just paraphrased what the dev said from the earlier quote.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.