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Invention Idea
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General Sauron
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-12-05 23:05:33 UTC
First of all, this is not a T2 BPO whine that is common on this forums, although I would love to own a Hulk BPO..:)

As many people are aware, the base invention ME and PE is not based on the original blueprint ME and PE, but a default -4 ME and -4 PE and modified by decryptors.

My opinion is that a fully or even partially research BPO should give better results then an unresearced BPO to invention chance, ME and/or PE. How much? To be honest I have no idea (I searched the forums on this subject, but didn't see much of anything)

What is your opinion on the subject? Is this a reasonable suggestion for the devs?
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer
#2 - 2011-12-05 23:52:29 UTC
+1 but T2 BPO owners would crybaby
Brock Nelson
#3 - 2011-12-06 00:34:37 UTC
-1 Mainly because it would dilute profit

Signature removed, CCP Phantom
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#4 - 2011-12-06 01:47:38 UTC
For a lot of stuff, it wouldn't matter much. Anything where the items that are vulnerable to the waste calculation number less then about 6 wouldn't be affected, and when it comes to saving 6 units of Tritanium on something, it's a non-issue. It would mostly affect the competitiveness of the bigger modules (think "ship hulls" and large/capital class modules).

The BPO owner's main competitive advantages:
- No datacore costs, no copy costs, no invention lab fees
- On the bigger items, the ME/PE does matter

Still, something like:

T2 BPC ME = Sqrt(T1 ME) - 5

Would provide a bit of amusement and variation to the process. The foolish folks might research their T1 BPOs to absurd levels.

(The lack of datacore costs is the key reason that some lesser T2 items operate at a loss, while T2 BPOs can make a profit. Especially if the demand isn't high enough for the item so margins are slim even with using a T2 BPO.)
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#5 - 2011-12-06 01:54:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
It was suggested ever since the introduction of invention that T1 BPC ME/PE levels should affect the T2 BPC ME/PE levels to some degree, and the idea was even repeated occasionally by CCP people.
As you can see, it's still not in the game.

Personally, I'd go for something simple, like, say, round[sqrt(T1_level)]-4 for both ME and PE.
That would translate into:
0 -> -4
1-2 -> -3
3-6 -> -2
7-12 -> -1
13-20 -> 0
21-30 -> +1
31-42 -> +2
43-56 -> +3
57-72 -> +4
etc

EFFECTS (and side-effects) of this would include but not necessarily be limited to:
* short-term very significantly increased demand for ME/PE research and long-term a slightly higher demand
* increased demand for datacores, high short-term, average long-term
* a radical shift in market values of decryptors since the only significant remaining attributes would be invention chance and number of extra runs
* a significant drop in T2 BPO profitability and overall value, alongside an initial sharp drop in T2 prices which will partially rectify soon via increase in material prices due to an increase in number of invented T2 items

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
General Sauron
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-12-06 04:21:51 UTC
Akita T wrote:
It was suggested ever since the introduction of invention that T1 BPC ME/PE levels should affect the T2 BPC ME/PE levels to some degree, and the idea was even repeated occasionally by CCP people.
As you can see, it's still not in the game.

Personally, I'd go for something simple, like, say, round[sqrt(T1_level)]-4 for both ME and PE.
That would translate into:
0 -> -4
1-2 -> -3
3-6 -> -2
7-12 -> -1
13-20 -> 0
21-30 -> +1
31-42 -> +2
43-56 -> +3
57-72 -> +4
etc

EFFECTS (and side-effects) of this would include but not necessarily be limited to:
* short-term very significantly increased demand for ME/PE research and long-term a slightly higher demand
* increased demand for datacores, high short-term, average long-term
* a radical shift in market values of decryptors since the only significant remaining attributes would be invention chance and number of extra runs
* a significant drop in T2 BPO profitability and overall value, alongside an initial sharp drop in T2 prices which will partially rectify soon via increase in material prices due to an increase in number of invented T2 items


Well, I wasnt thinking of or even expecting to have positive ME or PE values from invention. I would think that might be asking for too much.

I will use a scourge heavy missile blueprint as an example. I have this blueprint to an effective max ME of 147 and PE of 60. If I were to use this to make a copy and then to invent a scourge fury heavy missile blueprint, I should get a ME higher then -4.

The real question becomes what formula could or should be used to calculate the ME on the invented blueprint. To be honest, I have no idea. That being said, the higher the ME on the original blueprint the higher the possible ME on the invented blueprint up to perhaps an invented ME of zero. This would make having a researched bluerpint more valuable for invention, decrease but not nullify the value of T2 BPOs, and overall improve profitability compared to T2 BPO holders.