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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Add Medium and Light Sentries
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NovemberMike
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-05-23 02:48:27 UTC
This seems fairly obvious, but sentries do not simply represent an improvement over heavy drones, they represent a different philosophy which focuses on holding space and fighting from range, similar to the difference between pulse and beam lasers. There's no real reason that small or medium drones having these options would be overpowered and it would give more levers to balance things drone boats like the Ishtar.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2015-05-23 03:10:40 UTC
at least when this was sort of posted on the sentry re-balance thread it had more substance behind the idea Roll

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
NovemberMike
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-05-23 04:13:52 UTC
There just isn't that much to say about it. CCP obviously wants cruisers to have sentry drones or they could drop the battleship drones from them. If you give them medium sentries then it becomes much simpler to balance them around a cruiser sized weapon system rather than forcing them to be balanced with the same weapons a Domi will have.
joecuster
Iron Inquisition
Brotherhood of Spacers
#4 - 2015-05-23 04:15:17 UTC
bad
Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2015-05-23 04:31:37 UTC
NovemberMike wrote:
There just isn't that much to say about it



how about some stats or a basic idea of what makes them different


what you have is a name and a gripe with nothing constructive

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
NovemberMike
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-05-23 05:03:07 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
NovemberMike wrote:
There just isn't that much to say about it



how about some stats or a basic idea of what makes them different


what you have is a name and a gripe with nothing constructive


This should all be fairly obvious. Medium sentry drones should be cruiser weapons in the same way that the current sentry drones are battleship sized weapons. Sentries should have comparable range to long ranged weapons for comparable hulls (without long ranged ammo). This would put medium sentries at ~30km optimal and smalls would be at ~15km optimal. The dps should be similar to any other long ranged weapon, and they should have small tracking issues since they'll be tracking separately from the host.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#7 - 2015-05-23 05:12:01 UTC
NovemberMike wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
NovemberMike wrote:
There just isn't that much to say about it



how about some stats or a basic idea of what makes them different


what you have is a name and a gripe with nothing constructive


This should all be fairly obvious. Medium sentry drones should be cruiser weapons in the same way that the current sentry drones are battleship sized weapons. Sentries should have comparable range to long ranged weapons for comparable hulls (without long ranged ammo). This would put medium sentries at ~30km optimal and smalls would be at ~15km optimal. The dps should be similar to any other long ranged weapon, and they should have small tracking issues since they'll be tracking separately from the host.

What is obvious to you is not obvious to me, and vice versa.
every assumption makes an ass out of umption, who has enough problems with a name like that, thanks.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#8 - 2015-05-23 05:53:36 UTC
I must laugh.

You stole my idea from the re-balance thread.
At least link that in your OP so people have a point of reference.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#9 - 2015-05-23 06:20:46 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:
I must laugh.

You stole my idea from the re-balance thread.
At least link that in your OP so people have a point of reference.

It's been proposed often enough to usually end up auto-17'd.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#10 - 2015-05-23 07:20:15 UTC
Nope

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#11 - 2015-05-23 07:42:28 UTC
Like the idea has some theoretical merit but the problem isnt the sentry done, the problem is the ishtar... Noone is complaining about sentry dominixes or sentry geddons that i have ever seen anyways...

Much in the same way the problem isnt the torpedo bomber the problem is DBRB decloaking with 125 bomblaunchers
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-05-23 09:36:34 UTC
Could someone please link a defition from the game that states these are battleship weapons? I remember the original trailer for SoE ships showing a Stratios dropping some for protection in a Ghost site. Seems pretty definitive that cruisers are supposed to be able to use them.

Surely it is bonuses being applied to sentries that may make them OP. Fix that and the problem goes away. Want to make them BS systems by preference? Stop DDA's affecting sentries and introduce medium slot sentry DDA's so you can't shield tank and kite with them.
Arla Sarain
#13 - 2015-05-23 10:57:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Battleship or not, whatever

Part of drones disadvantages were that they need to get to the target to deal damage, a.k.a missiles. Switching between targets is difficult with regular drones, if the enemies are spread out.

Sentries circumvent that.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#14 - 2015-05-23 11:04:54 UTC
FireFrenzy wrote:
Like the idea has some theoretical merit but the problem isnt the sentry done, the problem is the ishtar... Noone is complaining about sentry dominixes or sentry geddons that i have ever seen anyways...

Much in the same way the problem isnt the torpedo bomber the problem is DBRB decloaking with 125 bomblaunchers




well there is that one guy with the duel bonuses thread complaining about the domi but thats about it


and CCP seems dead set on keeping its ishtar even at the expense of the sentry

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#15 - 2015-05-23 12:05:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Could someone please link a defition from the game that states these are battleship weapons? I remember the original trailer for SoE ships showing a Stratios dropping some for protection in a Ghost site. Seems pretty definitive that cruisers are supposed to be able to use them.

Surely it is bonuses being applied to sentries that may make them OP. Fix that and the problem goes away. Want to make them BS systems by preference? Stop DDA's affecting sentries and introduce medium slot sentry DDA's so you can't shield tank and kite with them.



You'd have to get CCP on board. they are currenly blind at the moment and can't see this. So they will nerf sentries until they are uselsss for every ship...besides domi and ishtar.

Would not get hopes up of change eiither . Staff in place is what is left after several poachings by other companies. With such (lack of) of vision about how to spot problems in a game....we do not have to ponder hard as to how this happened. So expect sentry nerf part 2 in the next 6 months, no change to ishtar.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#16 - 2015-05-23 13:59:20 UTC
No...

Yaay!!!!
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#17 - 2015-05-23 14:58:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Could someone please link a defition from the game that states these are battleship weapons?

My take has always been that this is based on damage output capability not the ship size, but then I could be wrong.


Zan Shiro wrote:
You'd have to get CCP on board. they are currenly blind at the moment and can't see this. So they will nerf sentries until they are uselsss for every ship...besides domi and ishtar.

CCP has not changed the basic drones stats in quite some time and it is doubtful that they will change them anytime soon because of the huge amount of work that would needed to re-balance every drones carrying ship in the game. Future speak it may happen but I would not hold my breath for it.

Zan Shiro wrote:
Would not get hopes up of change eiither . Staff in place is what is left after several poachings by other companies. With such (lack of) of vision about how to spot problems in a game....we do not have to ponder hard as to how this happened. So expect sentry nerf part 2 in the next 6 months, no change to ishtar.

CCP learned a hard lesson with the Drake and several other ships where the re-balancing passes left them nearly useless or significantly over powered. After the beating they took from the community over these ships CCP seems to have adopted a path of small changes with time in between to see how those changes affect the game and I for one believe that is the proper way to handle these situations. Take the Ishtar as an example, not long ago you could come here and every day there would be at least 1 new nerf the Ishtar post. After the last changes those posts have all but disappeared from the forums, is that because CCP got the changes right? or because players are tired of posting and finally accepted things as they are? I admit I do not know but given the depth, breadth and consistent nature of the complaints before I am leaning to the side of CCP got it right, or mostly so.

To take this back to the topic at hand the answer is NO to light medium and heavy sentry drones.
NovemberMike
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-05-23 15:14:37 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Could someone please link a defition from the game that states these are battleship weapons? I remember the original trailer for SoE ships showing a Stratios dropping some for protection in a Ghost site. Seems pretty definitive that cruisers are supposed to be able to use them.

Surely it is bonuses being applied to sentries that may make them OP. Fix that and the problem goes away. Want to make them BS systems by preference? Stop DDA's affecting sentries and introduce medium slot sentry DDA's so you can't shield tank and kite with them.


Sentries are battleship ranged weapons with battleship levels of tracking. An Ishtar with Warden II's has 93.8km + 42km, an Omen with the longest ranged lasers is sitting at 54 + 10km. Their numbers are balanced like they are battleship weapons.