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Speculate - What would happen if EVE added New Server Options?

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#41 - 2015-05-19 12:49:53 UTC
Of course, we already have three instances of eve: TQ, Serenity, and Sisi. The existence of Serenity and Sisi has not destroyed Eve, because the differences between them and TQ keeps TQ being desirable.

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Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#42 - 2015-05-19 13:14:21 UTC
Kaye Kaye wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:
Griefer Eve wrote:
Shederov Blood wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
The split into Felucca and Trammel were the death of Ultima Online.

Nonsense. UO became more successful than ever after the split.
The only people who said it died were the sociopaths who had their easy-mode carebear-ganking taken away.


Oh dear, you were serious.
Don't you think that in a PvP free server there'd be a lot lower demand for industry of all kinds... except perhaps ammo and drones. I'd hate to think what the economy would be like.

There'd be none, because barely any ships are lost ...
... thus barely any ships or modules have to be produced.

Prices would skyrocket before a group of people would start producing ships ...
... and prices would stay high, because literally everyone has billions at his disposal anyway.

As there is no market, there is nothing to trade.

The money is sitting in the wallet.

It's meaningless.

Someone tell me what that says about these people.


I think you're limiting your thought process on this one. This is what most likely would have to happen.

PVP = Anarchy Server; There is no PVE content, No NPC's, All Players create Missions and content for others, player corp factions instead of NPC, no hand holding of any sort by CCP. Players maintain the law and order of their territories, police their boundaries, etc. If they want gate guns, they have to mount them, etc. There is no High Sec, Low Sec or Null... Just space and no limits.

PVE = CCP Allows NPC spawns all over New Eden, Spawns like Burner Anomic NPC units, CCP creates NPC traders, mission runners, miners, etc... all running their own AI dynamic scripts. PC's could be pirates just the same, but just ganking AI instead of PC's. Random AI could disrupt PC missions, mining, etc.. The market would be far more interesting than the .01 Grind if an AI economy was robust.

Both servers could be limitless if they didn't have to balance two play styles.

Uhm... you make no sense.

You REALLY believe carebears will tolerate NPCs which disrupt their activity successfully?

HAHAHAHAHAHA
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Shanaal D'Faer
Talocan Singularity
#43 - 2015-05-19 13:27:21 UTC
Seriously. If people want a PVE server, go play on SiSi and avoid the combat systems. Done. Leave TQ Alone.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#44 - 2015-05-19 13:28:44 UTC
Nakami Saans wrote:
When I first joined EVE all those years ago, I probably would have said yes, but after many years of playing, coming back, playing, coming back, I say no. I'm an explorer at heart and running around nullsec\wh wouldn't be the same without the constant threat of death on my neck when hacking.


This is something a big segment of the "PVE Community" doesn't understand (by no means all of us though). They think they want to be "left alone in peace" but if they did, they'd be playing one of the plethora of games that mechanically enforce being "left alone". A game that features universal non-consensual pvp (even in high sec, if you are in space, you are fair game) is a terribly stupid choice of game for one who wants to "relax".

This is why people leave (loudly) claiming they will never come back because "X game is better" and despite X game having all the things they claim they want (like consensual only pvp, avatar play and "good pve" including the ability to make your own PVE) they eventually come back...usually WAY more quietly than they left lol. They simply don't understand themselves.
Memphis Baas
#45 - 2015-05-19 13:36:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Eve Solecist wrote:
You REALLY believe carebears will tolerate NPCs which disrupt their activity successfully?


You don't know much about carebears; AI behavior is calculable, predictable, and can be matched up in a risk vs. reward equation. Carebears won't have issues with AI "pirates", even if their AI is beefed up to sleeper level or beyond. It's players they don't want to fight against, because people are unpredictable assholes and it's always their fault, whereas the AI, even if unpredictable, is just run by a computer and there's no point in raging against a computer.

I'd love to see an experiment where CCP removes local (the entire channel, not just the list) and replaces ship icons with red + crosses and player / ship names with generic drifter names, so that nobody can tell whether they're fighting advanced AI NPCs or players. Just in lowsec, as an experiment.

Or, more realistically, give the NPCs player ships and agent names (which are similar enough to player names to sometimes fool people), and replace the icons, in order to reduce the distinction between AI and player enemies.
Velarra
#46 - 2015-05-19 13:52:45 UTC
Closest thing to enticing: a separate chunk of space where 98% of all skills, ships, modules, currencies & tactics, were completely inapplicable. Somewhere you could take a new type of rookie ship and sort-of start from scratch again. Somewhere you could come back from too.

Note this idea stems more from a desire for a ~truly alien~ place to travel to, visit and genuinely explore. Naturally TQ social ties & networks would follow through into this other place.
Kaye Kaye
Doomheim
#47 - 2015-05-19 14:04:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaye Kaye
Memphis Baas wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:
You REALLY believe carebears will tolerate NPCs which disrupt their activity successfully?


You don't know much about carebears; AI behavior is calculable, predictable, and can be matched up in a risk vs. reward equation. Carebears won't have issues with AI "pirates", even if their AI is beefed up to sleeper level or beyond. It's players they don't want to fight against, because people are unpredictable assholes and it's always their fault, whereas the AI, even if unpredictable, is just run by a computer and there's no point in raging against a computer.

I'd love to see an experiment where CCP removes local (the entire channel, not just the list) and replaces ship icons with red + crosses and player / ship names with generic drifter names, so that nobody can tell whether they're fighting advanced AI NPCs or players. Just in lowsec, as an experiment.

Or, more realistically, give the NPCs player ships and agent names (which are similar enough to player names to sometimes fool people), and replace the icons, in order to reduce the distinction between AI and player enemies.



This . . . . . is about spot on for many PVE style of players.
It truly has nothing to do with difficulty or losing a ship.

I play games to enjoy the time after work and progressing as I go, I am not a full time EVE vet. AI doesn't exploit weaknesses in the games code and AI doesn't fix the win with large numbers or other full time gamer tactics. As stated perfectly above, it's all about having levels of difficulty which can be managed without the added player attitudes. I just have no interest at all in the PVP attitude, and it has nothing to do with losing a ship, since we all know earning ISK is very easy. I've done the Null Sec/Low Sec thing over the 4 years I've played and 90% of the PVP encounters the players are just poor sports and arrogant with no interest in chatting about the confrontation, etc.. Why bother playing with others if they're just going to eat my food and act like idiots when they're invited over for a board game.

There are many PVE games that entertain, it's just a full time EVE player has seen it all and most likely spends far too much time playing this game to be balanced.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#48 - 2015-05-19 14:07:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
Memphis Baas wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:
You REALLY believe carebears will tolerate NPCs which disrupt their activity successfully?


You don't know much about carebears; AI behavior is calculable, predictable, and can be matched up in a risk vs. reward equation. Carebears won't have issues with AI "pirates", even if their AI is beefed up to sleeper level or beyond. It's players they don't want to fight against, because people are unpredictable assholes and it's always their fault, whereas the AI, even if unpredictable, is just run by a computer and there's no point in raging against a computer.

I'd love to see an experiment where CCP removes local (the entire channel, not just the list) and replaces ship icons with red + crosses and player / ship names with generic drifter names, so that nobody can tell whether they're fighting advanced AI NPCs or players. Just in lowsec, as an experiment.

Or, more realistically, give the NPCs player ships and agent names (which are similar enough to player names to sometimes fool people), and replace the icons, in order to reduce the distinction between AI and player enemies.

Yeah so there will be no disruption of activity.
It will just be more farming content for their fake superiority.

And hiding players behind wrong icons will only make carebears quit ...
... because they can't tell who is going to whoop their asses.

Carebears are all about the security of not having to be confronted with the own failings.
The predictability and easyness of content is a necessity ... not a desire.

Any possibility of a loss ...
... or of being brought back to actual reality ...
... will make them go somewhere else.


Because the one thing they need to avoid like the plague ...
... is being shown what failures they actually are ...
... and subsequentially having their fake superiority bubble popped.
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Zura Namee
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2015-05-19 14:24:41 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Of course, we already have three instances of eve: TQ, Serenity, and Sisi. The existence of Serenity and Sisi has not destroyed Eve, because the differences between them and TQ keeps TQ being desirable.


Serenity doesn't exist for variety's sake.
Memphis Baas
#50 - 2015-05-19 14:55:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Eve Solecist wrote:
Because the one thing they need to avoid like the plague ...
... is being shown what failures they actually are ...
... and subsequentially having their fake superiority bubble popped.


Again, you're projecting. PVP'ers care about killboards and image and "superiority", most carebears don't give a ****. They don't care what PVP'ers think, they don't care to be ranked, they want to AVOID the whole silliness.

Other MMO's have plenty of PVE raid NPC's that are quite difficult, and random world bosses that can insta-kill you if you stray into their area, and this content gets attempted by all sorts of guilds or pick-up groups with all sorts of experience and gear levels. And they do wipe out, repeatedly and often, so there's plenty of loss. Sometimes they even have to try to recover their stuff the hard way (corpse run into Everquest's POH, for example) and the raids still get attempted.

PVE players don't feel superior for succeeding at a raid, they just feel entertained, maybe even rewarded. PVP'ers feel superior.
Rhalina Sedai
Doomheim
#51 - 2015-05-19 15:13:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhalina Sedai
We like the pve aspect Eve currently has. Its not Eve if your ship cannot be exploded by a random that's just entered your system and is actively trying to scan you down to make your space pixels go pop. There is no fun grinding 24/7 just our opinion.

FSOP (Free Systems of Panorad)
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#52 - 2015-05-19 15:24:11 UTC
You are looking at it wrong. You're not trapped in here with them. They are trapped in here with YOU!
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#53 - 2015-05-19 15:31:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
Memphis Baas wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:
Because the one thing they need to avoid like the plague ...
... is being shown what failures they actually are ...
... and subsequentially having their fake superiority bubble popped.


Again, you're projecting. PVP'ers care about killboards and image and "superiority", most carebears don't give a ****. They don't care what PVP'ers think, they don't care to be ranked, they want to AVOID the whole silliness.

Other MMO's have plenty of PVE raid NPC's that are quite difficult, and random world bosses that can insta-kill you if you stray into their area, and this content gets attempted by all sorts of guilds or pick-up groups with all sorts of experience and gear levels. And they do wipe out, repeatedly and often, so there's plenty of loss. Sometimes they even have to try to recover their stuff the hard way (corpse run into Everquest's POH, for example) and the raids still get attempted.

PVE players don't feel superior for succeeding at a raid, they just feel entertained, maybe even rewarded. PVP'ers feel superior.

No I'm not. If you want to talk about it, though,
then leave your superficial viewpoint behind and look at how they behave and express themselves.

And you can't bring loss of other games into this
without mentioning the actual impact of this loss.
Last I heard absolutely most games don't make players lose all their stuff !

Sorry but unless you stop looking at it in such a superficial manner ...
... without addressing what aftually drives them ...
... we won't be talking about the same thing.

Just because you don't see it ...
... doesn't mean it's not there.


And to address it properly ...

It's called a superiority complex. They avoid PvP, because players are the only ones
who can show them what they are really worth. NPCs can not ever threaten their
superiority complexes. If you doubt it, I don't care, reading and thinking about their posts
is all that's needed to see it for yourself.

Hell, I have written about this already several times with varying detail.

You not knowng better really does not change it.
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Fabrizio Faggetino
Doomheim
#54 - 2015-05-19 15:56:30 UTC
Quote:
It's called a superiority complex. They avoid PvP, because players are the only ones
who can show them what they are really worth. NPCs can not ever threaten their
superiority complexes. If you doubt it, I don't care, reading and thinking about their posts
is all that's needed to see it for yourself.


I once heard the leader of a big pvp null-sec alliance tell a "carebear" he should go hang himself cause all he was doing was mining. If that isn't feeling superior, I don't know what it is. The same kind of attitude is found a plenty amongst big null sec alliances. Then again, plenty of pvp'ers have no problem with pve'ers, because they not narcissistic elitist and that they understand other people have the right to play this game however the **** they like to play it and, that what they do with their time is their own ******* business. The same is true of pve'ers, some feel superior and want to impose their "carebear" ways on others, some don't. So let's not generalize,alright?

。.:・°☆ FABRIZIO 。.:・°☆
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#55 - 2015-05-19 16:10:36 UTC
The carebears would go to the PvE server, farm until they see how pointless this is without an actual world which consumes the stuff they produce that way and then come back to cry again to make TQ safer.

Evil RatKid
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#56 - 2015-05-19 16:42:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
Fabrizio Faggetino wrote:
Quote:
It's called a superiority complex. They avoid PvP, because players are the only ones
who can show them what they are really worth. NPCs can not ever threaten their
superiority complexes. If you doubt it, I don't care, reading and thinking about their posts
is all that's needed to see it for yourself.


I once heard the leader of a big pvp null-sec alliance tell a "carebear" he should go hang himself cause all he was doing was mining. If that isn't feeling superior, I don't know what it is. The same kind of attitude is found a plenty amongst big null sec alliances. Then again, plenty of pvp'ers have no problem with pve'ers, because they not narcissistic elitist and that they understand other people have the right to play this game however the **** they like to play it and, that what they do with their time is their own ******* business. The same is true of pve'ers, some feel superior and want to impose their "carebear" ways on others, some don't. So let's not generalize,alright?

It's anger, but not necessarily superiority.

Probably anger about someone who does not want to contribute and work for the community.

You actually point out the flaw in your logic all by yourself.

Quote:
that what they do with their time is their own ...


NO ! IT IS NOT !

Because when you want to be a part of a bigger group ...
... you can not just be there for your own gain ...
... you also have to be there for the gain of the whole !


And you people don't get that ...
... because you only care about your ******* selves !


Sheesh !
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Memphis Baas
#57 - 2015-05-19 18:01:37 UTC
You don't have to explain the basics of social interaction and group expectations, because the average age of the EVE player is 27+ (at least according to the old 2010 data I could find on the old forums), which is well past the Entitled High School SnotLord age, and well into the "I have a job, responsibilities, family, kids, and I'm a reasonable adult" age.

Not interested in continuing the discussion, either; I don't care.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#58 - 2015-05-19 19:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
DaReaper wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
If CCP started a PvE server, then the people who have that main interest would go there. The people who are interested in empire building and so on, that is those who create most of the player driven content, would stay on TQ. As a result Eve would continue to be Eve. There would be fewer people on TQ, but how many "All I want to do is level up my Raven" type players does TQ need?

no it wouldn't. you need the pve'ers and the miners and builders to make your stuff. Without them the pvpers would then have to become misison runners and miners full time to be able to produce the things they need.
They already are. That's kind of the point Vincent is making: the aforementioned PvEers and miners and builders aren't necessary because everything they do can (and is already) done by the empire builders in question. If the former go away, all that happens is that the population number goes down.

The converse is not true, however, which means that the PvE server would cease to function since half of the game no longer exists, just as you describe, whereas it would continue as before on TQ.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#59 - 2015-05-19 19:56:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
If CCP started a PvE server, then the people who have that main interest would go there. The people who are interested in empire building and so on, that is those who create most of the player driven content, would stay on TQ. As a result Eve would continue to be Eve. There would be fewer people on TQ, but how many "All I want to do is level up my Raven" type players does TQ need?

no it wouldn't. you need the pve'ers and the miners and builders to make your stuff. Without them the pvpers would then have to become misison runners and miners full time to be able to produce the things they need.
They already are. That's kind of the point Vincent is making: the aforementioned PvEers and miners and builders aren't necessary because everything they do can (and is already) done by the empire builders in question. If the former go away, all that happens is that the population number goes down.

The converse is not true, however, which means that the PvE server would cease to function since half of the game no longer exists, just as you describe, whereas it would continue as before on TQ.



yea you are right i ment to inverse that. The pvpers would be fine, the rest not so much

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2015-05-19 22:27:17 UTC
I would be absolutely fascinated to see what happens if CCP turns LS and HS into NPC null. No CONCORD, no faction police, no gate/station guns, no sec status. But still retaining NPC stations so anybody can dock, and cyno/cap restrictions in formerly HS systems.

Would the EVE universe devolve into a sparsely populated Mad Max style anarchy?
Would a single Roman Empire style organization come to dominate the map? Enforcing laws and KOS lists, patrolling trade lanes, hunting down "outlaw/barbarian" pilots in wormholes who refuse to conform... How long would such an entity last until it fractures internally?
Would multiple coalitions each carve out their own section of space? Two coalitions? A dozen? How fluid would the territory ownership be?
What would Jita 4-4 undock look like? Ghost town? Constant slugfest? Mostly peaceful trade center heavily patrolled by a coalition claiming the system as theirs?

It would be too disruptive to current gameplay to implement but it's fun to think about. Twisted