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TerminalDogma's declassified Project Looking Glass report

Author
Rena Risalo
Doomheim
#21 - 2015-05-16 17:34:03 UTC
Rosal Milag wrote:
Esteban Dragonovic wrote:
Rosal Milag wrote:
J-space was created by some entity for the purpose of planning a galactic invasion.

Yes, there is the massive costs and astronomical, no pun intended, scale of materials needed.


If you can create star systems, why would you need to invade new ones? Building them just to simulate invading them is simply not cost efficient.



Cost effective for whom? Sacrificing a dread because it's too long to jump back isn't cost effective for a small corporation. But Black Legion did so in mass numbers. Look to our cluster for one simple resource. Humans. Where else are you going to find the trillions of human beings?


Look, as i said lay off the boosters. If this were the case drifter ships would have a Sanshas Nation logo on the side. The nation makes incursions to get warm bodies all the time. You dont need such a complex staging ground for that. All the drifters would have to do is ally or work with the nation. Or take them over first. Its just too much effort to create all that space just for practice. If that had the power to manipulate matter and energy to that degree time travel wouldnt really be out of the question and would probably be simpler.
joecuster
Anime Masters
#22 - 2015-05-16 17:55:25 UTC
Will Gauss wrote:
The Declassified Report

For the safety of New Eden, I have approved the declassification of Project Looking Glass. Neither I nor any other TerminalDogma member will be taking questions at this time. Thank you.


never cringed so hard in my life
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#23 - 2015-05-16 18:09:31 UTC
When I was in TS-F we reviewed several sleeper artifacts. One of which allowed for precise travel in 4 dimensions... This data seems to match up with a hairball theory we hatched at the time, but was stored on lacking data. However I would shy away from the thought that this is time travel and more a form of proof that at type of multiverse theory is accurate and that Anoikis is a copy of New Eden. The name that is cataloged for the region may be of some insite.

{Anoikis is a form of programmed cell death that is induced by anchorage-dependent cells detaching from the surrounding extracellular matrix (ECM). Usually cells stay close to the tissue to which they belong since the communication between proximal cells as well as between cells and ECM provide essential signals for growth or survival. When cells are detached from the ECM, there is a loss of normal cell–matrix interactions, and they may undergo anoikis. However, metastatic tumor cells may escape from anoikis and invade other organs.} Copied from public data archives

Reviewing this its almost a one to one of what we are looking at. In this case the Drifters are a living metaphor for a cancer that is trying to spread from one organ to another. From their version of New Eden without an underlying matrix to ours with. According to this aped metaphor and the survey data gathered here Anoikis is undergoing 'cell death' a slow decay where a the structure holding together the systems are failing and will eventually lead the space to be officially dead.

Jade Blackwind
#24 - 2015-05-16 18:22:46 UTC
Will Gauss wrote:
The Declassified Report

For the safety of New Eden, I have approved the declassification of Project Looking Glass. Neither I nor any other TerminalDogma member will be taking questions at this time. Thank you.


Interesting. But what about that simple fact that New Eden is observable from Anoikis?

hehe
Will Gauss
TerminalDogma
Lucky Starbase Syndicate
#25 - 2015-05-16 18:25:02 UTC
Jade Blackwind wrote:
Will Gauss wrote:
The Declassified Report

For the safety of New Eden, I have approved the declassification of Project Looking Glass. Neither I nor any other TerminalDogma member will be taking questions at this time. Thank you.


Interesting. But what about that simple fact that New Eden is observable from Anoikis?

hehe


If you guys can figure out an explanation for that, I'd love to see it and I'm looking forward to seeing what the larger scientific community does with this information.
Quattras Peione
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-05-16 18:33:44 UTC
There are fascinating, if potentially terrible, implications to this.

I had considered the possibility that the wormholes we traverse connect disparate time as well as space. That said, I am not entirely convinced that Anoikis is a future instance of the New Eden cluster. First, as Project Compass discovered, the physical distance between the two clusters can be pretty definitively calculated.

Second, the name Usi - a system out of which I operated - stuck out, and I noted that there are two J-systems tagged as exact matches for it. I did not notice if this was the case for any others, but it only adds further questions.

Dr. Quattras Alvar Peione

No, I'm not that kind of doctor.

Will Gauss
TerminalDogma
Lucky Starbase Syndicate
#27 - 2015-05-16 18:40:28 UTC
Quattras Peione wrote:
There are fascinating, if potentially terrible, implications to this.

I had considered the possibility that the wormholes we traverse connect disparate time as well as space. That said, I am not entirely convinced that Anoikis is a future instance of the New Eden cluster. First, as Project Compass discovered, the physical distance between the two clusters can be pretty definitively calculated.

Second, the name Usi - a system out of which I operated - stuck out, and I noted that there are two J-systems tagged as exact matches for it. I did not notice if this was the case for any others, but it only adds further questions.



You are correct. Looking at these two Anoikis systems, they appear to be mirrors of each other as well. In two years of looking at this we didn't notice that. In five hours of it being out in the public you did. This right here is why we just released what we had.

J145337

J161257
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#28 - 2015-05-16 19:51:42 UTC
The Compass 2.5 findings also match within the bounds of the initial project Compass findings perfectly.
So yea..... I'd suggest going back to the drawing board on this and instead considering that just like atoms, star systems will condense into known patterns regularly rather than infinite variation, simply because those patterns are stable.
When we have known analogies with orbital models that form such patterns, why should we be surprised to see it replicated on a macro scale?
Rena Risalo
Doomheim
#29 - 2015-05-16 20:43:22 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The Compass 2.5 findings also match within the bounds of the initial project Compass findings perfectly.
So yea..... I'd suggest going back to the drawing board on this and instead considering that just like atoms, star systems will condense into known patterns regularly rather than infinite variation, simply because those patterns are stable.
When we have known analogies with orbital models that form such patterns, why should we be surprised to see it replicated on a macro scale?



Please learn astrophysics. And quantum physics.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#30 - 2015-05-16 20:58:50 UTC
Rena Risalo wrote:

Please learn astrophysics. And quantum physics.

In that case please feel free to show exactly why it's impossible for star systems to form in common patterns. Along with a non time travelling explanation for the aforementioned similar star systems given the depth of project compasses mapping and positioning data using several different forms of verification all giving J space a real space location relative to the Eve cluster.
Rena Risalo
Doomheim
#31 - 2015-05-16 21:14:05 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Rena Risalo wrote:

Please learn astrophysics. And quantum physics.

In that case please feel free to show exactly why it's impossible for star systems to form in common patterns. Along with a non time travelling explanation for the aforementioned similar star systems given the depth of project compasses mapping and positioning data using several different forms of verification all giving J space a real space location relative to the Eve cluster.


If it were as common as you say then we would see duplicate systems in k-space all the time. Show me a bunch of k-space systems that have the same kinds of stars, moons, planets distances etc as one another and i might take you seriously.



As for atomic structures electron clouds are highly chaotic, subject to ionization etc and the paths the electrons take in each atom is different. If you have two oxygen atoms the electrons in the cloud would be in completely different places in different orbits at different times. While both remaining oxygen atoms. The probability of finding two oxygen atoms that arent somehow linked via quantum entanglement having all of their electrons having the same orbit is astronomical.

So the chance of a solar system developing the same star with the same number of planets and moons not just once but over and over and over again is again astronomical in odds. Finding one or a few matching systems could be waved away as coincidence but not over and over and over again having each wormhole space system having a new eden parallel. What you are proposing is not only absurd wishful thinking, it borders on lunacy in the face of the evidence
Andi Onthatop
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#32 - 2015-05-16 21:31:34 UTC
Was brainstorming some and had a thought.

What if when a connection spawns between a two systems, a connection spawns between the mirrors of those two systems?

No real reason to think this, but it wouldn't be hard to verify if you have a hole whose static you can roll, but one would need access to the hole list of mirrors.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#33 - 2015-05-16 21:36:25 UTC
I'm aware of the nature of atoms. However you have neglected to account for their tendency towards shells. Additionally Looking Glass shows a significant number of discrepancies between systems, orbital radii change, planet compositions change, yet somehow retain identical mass and radii themselves despite a massive change in planetary shift......
And the time travel theory is utterly unsupported by any real evidence. It's an interesting co-incidence, but to leap from 'both planets have the same moons' to 'time travel every time we go backwards & forwards' is truly incredible.

If they can produce some independently verifiable science, rather than just survey data, such as a way to show the time shift, then I'll start to take things more seriously.

However we do have data that gives us a real space location of J systems, of which several methods of observation have all generated similar results, including two entirely different groups coming to the same results. Which strongly suggests it's simply a normal wormhole that connects us there. After all I don't recall people claiming gates can be used for time travel, and gates use wormholes as well.
Radical Divinity
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2015-05-16 22:25:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Radical Divinity
Perhaps when a pilot maneuvers/jumps through a wormhole, they are in fact entering into a simulation. The act of jumping uploads the condensed meta-data of the pilot which, for all intents and purposes, appears to be a seamless transition from one system to another with the wormhole serving as an advanced version of our brain scan technology. I find it disquieting that our behavior within Anoikis (probing, scanning, harvesting data and resources while not engaging in what one could call diplomatic dialogue with the natives) is parallel to the Drifter's behavior currently within our own system.

If Anoikis is a virtual environment, is it an environment to study and establish patterns of communication from alien/foreign civilizations? Are they now merely expressing a dialogue themselves by mirroring our behavior?
Jaro Essa
Dahkur Forge
#35 - 2015-05-17 00:10:19 UTC
Will Gauss wrote:
Quattras Peione wrote:
Second, the name Usi - a system out of which I operated - stuck out, and I noted that there are two J-systems tagged as exact matches for it. I did not notice if this was the case for any others, but it only adds further questions.


You are correct. Looking at these two Anoikis systems, they appear to be mirrors of each other as well. In two years of looking at this we didn't notice that. In five hours of it being out in the public you did. This right here is why we just released what we had.

J145337

J161257


Close. All three systems share the same number of planets and the same distribution of moons, but while J145337's planets are is similar to those in Usi (J145337 III is barren while Usi III is temperate, and J145337 VII is oceanic while Usi III is lava), J161257 is substantially different. The five outer planets are the same type, but the inner three are storm, temperate, lava instead of lava, barren, temperate.

Moreover, J161257 is affected by a nearby red giant, with all the consequent effects on capsuleer systems as seen in other systems affected in such a way, yet J145337 remains untouched.
Graelyn
Aeternus Command Academy
#36 - 2015-05-17 00:28:26 UTC
Ah...

Hrm.

Cardinal Graelyn

Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113

Odeva Pawen
Fliet Pizza Delivery
Of Essence
#37 - 2015-05-17 00:38:06 UTC
Radical Divinity wrote:
Perhaps when a pilot maneuvers/jumps through a wormhole, they are in fact entering into a simulation. The act of jumping uploads the condensed meta-data of the pilot which, for all intents and purposes, appears to be a seamless transition from one system to another with the wormhole serving as an advanced version of our brain scan technology. I find it disquieting that our behavior within Anoikis (probing, scanning, harvesting data and resources while not engaging in what one could call diplomatic dialogue with the natives) is parallel to the Drifter's behavior currently within our own system.

If Anoikis is a virtual environment, is it an environment to study and establish patterns of communication from alien/foreign civilizations? Are they now merely expressing a dialogue themselves by mirroring our behavior?


But how would that explain the existence of sleeper materials in known space? If your theory were true, we would not be able to bring material out of these wormhole systems. No, I believe that the explanation to be simpler than that.

Overheat Keyboards! Load Rage posts! Prepare for a long, seething, back and forth about irrelevant things!

Radical Divinity
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2015-05-17 01:25:06 UTC
Quote:
But how would that explain the existence of sleeper materials in known space? If your theory were true, we would not be able to bring material out of these wormhole systems. No, I believe that the explanation to be simpler than that.


You're completely correct. Without going into extremes of possible absurdity and manipulation, the more simple answer is no doubt the correct one. It's far safer to err on the side of humility and accept that our fundamental understanding of the Universe may not be correct.
Will Gauss
TerminalDogma
Lucky Starbase Syndicate
#39 - 2015-05-17 11:16:43 UTC
Following a suggestion by Frenjo Borkstar of Arek'Jaalan, I altered the matching script to flag systems which are in Jovian space. I was surprised to find that he had been on to something.

This is a full dump of the entire matching set.
Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2015-05-17 11:32:44 UTC
Does it mean that drifters are future us who lack biomass for their new clones?

But really, I believe that the God made our Universe on principle of causality, which would make time travel impossible.

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