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For the love of god fix RR agression CCP!
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Lori Dyth
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-12-05 16:00:49 UTC
I still dont get why this has not been fixed already?

If Mr A and Mr B are fighting at a gate/undock and Mr A is winning, If i come along and RR Mr B in my logi then i'm choosing sides.

Ergo, if im choosing to be Mr B's friend, it makes sense that i am now Mr A's enemy, yet i can insta dock/jump at the first sign of danger and be pretty much godly.

Same goes for neutral SB'ing Blackbirds camping on undock ( im looking at you Orphanage ), if **** gets real, off they fly wit not a care in the world.

Come on CCP, this fix is well overdue now, transfer agression timers to all RR/SB neuts please?.......
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#2 - 2011-12-05 16:08:14 UTC
Wanst this fix'ed

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#3 - 2011-12-05 16:13:02 UTC
Shocked

I thought they had made the RR-aggression update with the release of Crucible.

I quote from the Crucible patch notes :

"*You will now be warned before assisting someone at war when in high security space."
"*If someone you’re assisting in high security space gets an unexpected aggression flag, your assistance module will deactivate and require manual reactivation to avoid unintentional flagging towards the assister."

Is that not what the RR aggressor does now, Lori Dyth ?

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#4 - 2011-12-05 16:13:25 UTC
So I'm pretty sure you can't repair people from the inside of a station or the wrong side of a gate so I'm failing to see the issue.

Also if logistics jumps through a gate just go after it and kill it, it really isn't brain surgery.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#5 - 2011-12-05 16:17:38 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So I'm pretty sure you can't repair people from the inside of a station or the wrong side of a gate so I'm failing to see the issue.

Also if logistics jumps through a gate just go after it and kill it, it really isn't brain surgery.


Or maybe you've already had a brain surgery.

You can't go after it as you have an aggression timer, and can't jump. For some reason the same timer is missing from the RR ******.

.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#6 - 2011-12-05 16:19:40 UTC
Did you know that not everybody in your fleet should aggress if you are expecting enemy assets to jump?
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#7 - 2011-12-05 16:20:09 UTC
Thorn Galen wrote:
Shocked

I thought they had made the RR-aggression update with the release of Crucible.

I quote from the Crucible patch notes :

"*You will now be warned before assisting someone at war when in high security space."
"*If someone you’re assisting in high security space gets an unexpected aggression flag, your assistance module will deactivate and require manual reactivation to avoid unintentional flagging towards the assister."

Is that not what the RR aggressor does now, Lori Dyth ?


]
its funny cos now even if your in the same corp that is at war you get the your repping a war target warning. so most likely needs a little change to not flag a corp mate that is already flaged, just seams kinda dumb tbh

OMG when can i get a pic here
Lori Dyth
Doomheim
#8 - 2011-12-05 16:20:10 UTC
Thorn Galen wrote:
Shocked

I thought they had made the RR-aggression update with the release of Crucible.

I quote from the Crucible patch notes :

"*You will now be warned before assisting someone at war when in high security space."
"*If someone you’re assisting in high security space gets an unexpected aggression flag, your assistance module will deactivate and require manual reactivation to avoid unintentional flagging towards the assister."

Is that not what the RR aggressor does now, Lori Dyth ?



Yes they inherit the agression, but not the timer.

So i could neut RR a friend ( accept agression ) but still be able to dock/jump as i have no timer, but those who are now my enemy have, so cant follow me :)
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#9 - 2011-12-05 16:22:00 UTC
Lori Dyth wrote:
Thorn Galen wrote:
Shocked

I thought they had made the RR-aggression update with the release of Crucible.

I quote from the Crucible patch notes :

"*You will now be warned before assisting someone at war when in high security space."
"*If someone you’re assisting in high security space gets an unexpected aggression flag, your assistance module will deactivate and require manual reactivation to avoid unintentional flagging towards the assister."

Is that not what the RR aggressor does now, Lori Dyth ?



Yes they inherit the agression, but not the timer.

So i could neut RR a friend ( accept agression ) but still be able to dock/jump as i have no timer, but those who are now my enemy have, so cant follow me :)


as much as nuetral rr'ing is ******, there shouldnt be a timer for rr'ing anyone. you are not aggressing and shouldnt be aggressed

OMG when can i get a pic here
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#10 - 2011-12-05 16:27:57 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Did you know that not everybody in your fleet should aggress if you are expecting enemy assets to jump?


How does that fix the broken mechanic, and not make neutral RR even more powerful? What if there is no fleet, or the "fleet" is two ships?

The idea of inheriting the aggression flag was to fix neutral RR, but without the timer, the flag goes only half way in fixing the issue.

.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#11 - 2011-12-05 16:30:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Lori Dyth wrote:
I still dont get why this has not been fixed already?

If Mr A and Mr B are fighting at a gate/undock and Mr A is winning, If i come along and RR Mr B in my logi then i'm choosing sides.



When you make a choice you must accept the consequences. Either you get in to Mr Whatever corp and rep it or you get in to Mr Whoever corp and rep it.

Neutral reps/assistance by any form should not make you invulnerable but a choice with consequences. It's done, now you have to pick a choice and assume what's after.

Edit: Unless it bugs the patch was about to fix this.
Lori Dyth
Doomheim
#12 - 2011-12-05 16:35:33 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
Lori Dyth wrote:
Thorn Galen wrote:
Shocked

I thought they had made the RR-aggression update with the release of Crucible.

I quote from the Crucible patch notes :

"*You will now be warned before assisting someone at war when in high security space."
"*If someone you’re assisting in high security space gets an unexpected aggression flag, your assistance module will deactivate and require manual reactivation to avoid unintentional flagging towards the assister."

Is that not what the RR aggressor does now, Lori Dyth ?



Yes they inherit the agression, but not the timer.

So i could neut RR a friend ( accept agression ) but still be able to dock/jump as i have no timer, but those who are now my enemy have, so cant follow me :)


as much as nuetral rr'ing is ******, there shouldnt be a timer for rr'ing anyone. you are not aggressing and shouldnt be aggressed


You ARE agressing by association, so should take the full consequences of your action when choosing to do so.

As it is, neut RR's and SB's can jump/dock at will when the guns get pointed in their direction from accepting the agression.

They DO need a timer.
baltec1
Bat Country
The Initiative.
#13 - 2011-12-05 16:39:40 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Did you know that not everybody in your fleet should aggress if you are expecting enemy assets to jump?


The whole point of having neut RR is to not have them show up as assets untill needed. Given that Empire is a rather busy place its rather hard to pick them out of a crowd.
Xtover
Cold Moon Destruction.
#14 - 2011-12-05 16:43:28 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Did you know that not everybody in your fleet should aggress if you are expecting enemy assets to jump?



I think the matter is more with docking games than jumping.

That being said, a dictor bubble is now agression even though it does no DPS- it's strictly a fleet-enhancing mechanic for your side, as is RR.

I know.. this takes away the way you play your empire wars but hey, sucks for you.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#15 - 2011-12-05 16:44:46 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Did you know that not everybody in your fleet should aggress if you are expecting enemy assets to jump?


The whole point of having neut RR is to not have them show up as assets untill needed. Given that Empire is a rather busy place its rather hard to pick them out of a crowd.

This thread is not about neutral logistics. You are projecting.
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#16 - 2011-12-05 16:44:55 UTC
Lori Dyth wrote:

Yes they inherit the agression, but not the timer.

So i could neut RR a friend ( accept agression ) but still be able to dock/jump as i have no timer, but those who are now my enemy have, so cant follow me :)

....
....
...

You ARE agressing by association, so should take the full consequences of your action when choosing to do so.

As it is, neut RR's and SB's can jump/dock at will when the guns get pointed in their direction from accepting the agression.

They DO need a timer.


Well if that is the situation now then yes, there's definitely an oversight on this by CCP.
100% Correct, you would be aggressing by association and should be inheriting the aggression as well as the timers.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
baltec1
Bat Country
The Initiative.
#17 - 2011-12-05 16:57:53 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Did you know that not everybody in your fleet should aggress if you are expecting enemy assets to jump?


The whole point of having neut RR is to not have them show up as assets untill needed. Given that Empire is a rather busy place its rather hard to pick them out of a crowd.

This thread is not about neutral logistics. You are projecting.


What thread are you reading?

Oh wait I get it, you dont want your little logi ship stuck outside the station.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#18 - 2011-12-05 17:02:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Xtover wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Did you know that not everybody in your fleet should aggress if you are expecting enemy assets to jump?



I think the matter is more with docking games than jumping.

That being said, a dictor bubble is now agression even though it does no DPS- it's strictly a fleet-enhancing mechanic for your side, as is RR.

I know.. this takes away the way you play your empire wars but hey, sucks for you.

I don't think people understand exactly what the effect this kind of change would have on station games would be.

If someone providing logistics support inherets the timer from the aggressed ship they are assisting logistics ships will still be able to remote repair a de-aggressing ship until it can dock and then remotely repair eachother until they can dock because no act of aggression has been performed by either logistics ship or the ship they were assisting.

It's not a particularly significant change to how logistics works unless you only have a singular logistics ship on the field and are losing the fight anyway. Or if you're an Orphan and are perpetually covered in remote sensor boosting blackbirds.
Aamrr
#19 - 2011-12-05 17:11:23 UTC
My proposal, here, seems relevant...
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#20 - 2011-12-05 17:16:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
That's the exact suggestion I was talking about actually. I'd make practically no difference to how folks with multiple logistics ships use RR in highsec. The people it would affect are the people who will steal a cargo container then sit on an undock with a neutral oneiros or scimitar on standby to rep them when half a dozen bees undock on to shoot them which would actually be awesome because I hate those people and encounter them all the time.

It's fine by me, it just won't solve the "problem" with logistics in empire and people will still whine about being spanked by a fleet that brought 5 guardians with them.

The entire argument boils down to "They had logistics and we didn't" or "Some idiot managed to dock because he had someone rep him then he talked smack in local and I am butthurt" and that solution resolves neither.
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