These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

My own little piece of Eden. Planning for citadels.

Author
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#1 - 2015-05-12 23:07:04 UTC
I'm in the throes of planning for a small POS with researching and reprocessing abilities.

Or I was until I read the dev blog http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/shake-my-citadel/

Which changes things somewhat.

Currently I need to get higher standing with Amarr Empire to place a control tower in Amarr high sec.

I also need to balance the books to make sure I can pay for supplies like the 5,000,000 ISK per day running costs.

But with the Citadel dev blog things look like they change a fair bit.

For example one thing is that fuel might only be used when an Array is used. Which I assume to mean that costs may be lower than they are now. Which is understandable if CCP wants to encourage everyone to become owners of space bait, oh sorry, meant space habitats.

It also means if I put up a control tower now, that I need to go through the whole erection process again later this year, with different structures and rules.

And erections can be such painful affairs.

Which also leads me to think about what happens to my old control tower if I put one up now?

Will it become useless? Will CCP delete them at a certain time?

Does anyone have any insights?

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~

Marsha Mallow
#2 - 2015-05-12 23:34:24 UTC
Hir Miriel wrote:
And erections can be such painful affairs.

Which also leads me to think about what happens to my old control tower if I put one up now?

Will it become useless? Will CCP delete them at a certain time?

Does anyone have any insights?

If it's only a small one I'm sure no one will even notice it.

The initial structure devblog answers part of your question. The proposed maintenance costs for the new structures aren't in the blog released today. Bear in mind at FF they stated that these will take a while to roll out and the earliest structures will probably be the only ones released this year. These are very early phase discussions so I'd just keep an eye on blogs/announcements for the time being, participate with questions and feedback, but otherwise carry on with whatever you were planning.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-05-12 23:37:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Hir Miriel wrote:
IFor example one thing is that fuel might only be used when an Array is used. Which I assume to mean that costs may be lower than they are now. Which is understandable if CCP wants to encourage everyone to become owners of space bait, oh sorry, meant space habitats.

It also means if I put up a control tower now, that I need to go through the whole erection process again later this year, with different structures and rules.

And erections can be such painful affairs.

Which also leads me to think about what happens to my old control tower if I put one up now?

Will it become useless? Will CCP delete them at a certain time?

Does anyone have any insights?

Hope I answer these ok:

1. Yep, seems new structures might not use fuel just to exist, but only when doing somehing (see Service Slots under Structure Fitting here about 1/3rd the way down the page: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/back-into-the-structure/ )

2. Yes most likely and with different skill requirements possibly as well. The skill requirement bit is mentioned in the latest devblog.

3. We don't know exactly, but CCP will plan a transition period (see Transition Plan at the bottom of the page linked above)

4. Yep, most likely. See previous answer

5. Don't know if I have any insights at all. Hope those answers provide something based on available information though.
Hippinse
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-05-12 23:54:44 UTC
Hir Miriel wrote:
And erections can be such painful affairs.


Especially if it lasts for more than four hours.
Ripblade Falconpunch
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-05-13 00:14:18 UTC
Hippinse wrote:
Hir Miriel wrote:
And erections can be such painful affairs.


Especially if it lasts for more than four hours.


I don't care what they say, that's not a medical emergency - that's a MIRACLE!
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#6 - 2015-05-13 00:22:07 UTC
So we're just done with phrasing, right, that's not a thing anymore?





Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

kyoukoku
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-05-13 00:25:05 UTC
Hippinse wrote:
Hir Miriel wrote:
And erections can be such painful affairs.


Especially if it lasts for more than four hours.



I'm sorry....

Hey...
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#8 - 2015-05-13 01:41:01 UTC
Okay, wait and see is it.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#9 - 2015-05-13 01:44:46 UTC
ib4l for redundancy btw

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Jasmine Cheryu
Bearers of Impurism
#10 - 2015-05-13 03:33:42 UTC
Hir Miriel wrote:

Currently I need to get higher standing with Amarr Empire to place a control tower in Amarr high sec.


Just if you're not aware.. you can place any control tower, anywhere in highsec now, without standings.
The only limitation (that I'm currently aware of) is that your corp needs to be more than 7 days old

Cool
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#11 - 2015-05-13 03:55:03 UTC
I anticipate these things being a monumental pain in the ass in highsec. Particularly if a single structure intended for use by one player is going to be able to repel attacks by capital ships.
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#12 - 2015-05-13 04:10:58 UTC
Jasmine Cheryu wrote:
Hir Miriel wrote:

Currently I need to get higher standing with Amarr Empire to place a control tower in Amarr high sec.


Just if you're not aware.. you can place any control tower, anywhere in highsec now, without standings.
The only limitation (that I'm currently aware of) is that your corp needs to be more than 7 days old

Cool


Thank you!

Been reading the wrong notes, and stuck in a time warp it seems.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~

Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#13 - 2015-05-13 04:17:41 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I anticipate these things being a monumental pain in the ass in highsec. Particularly if a single structure intended for use by one player is going to be able to repel attacks by capital ships.


I'm not too concerned about being efficient. From that perspective they don't seem worth it.

As to them being a pain to kill, well they should be, otherwise nobody will use them and it will all be a waste of time.

Time that CCP could have used better elsewhere.

Personally I don't think that there is a better way of creating content than by tying it into some sense of belonging.

That the player actually owns a piece of Eden and belongs there.

Maybe especially so since in the real world fewer and fewer will ever live the dream of owning property. Real estate, to coin a phrase.

I'm wondering about the storyline for the introduction of Citadels.

Especially any possible links to Drifters (don't try to kill them by the way).

Drifters are homeless too, perhaps they become mercenary guards for Citadels in certain cases and we see a lessening of the power of Concord.

All good fun to think about.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#14 - 2015-05-13 05:00:54 UTC
There's a difference between something being survivable enough to be practical and it being excessively difficult to destroy them.

POSes being able to equip modules intended to protect them against fleets of capital ships in space where capital ships are inherently cannot be used for offense is fundamentally unbalanced. Particularly considering the low time and isk investment required to set up tower and the near zero risk of losing its contents in highsec versus the fairly expensive fleet, 50+ man hours, severe risk and total lack of reward (due to the ability to remove or trash all POS contents at any time) when attacking it.

The current mechanics make organic conflicts over active POS structures really, really uncommon and when they do exist they're typically carried out by mercenaries which in turn results in carebear whine about faction battleship+logistics fleets and them being horribly outnumbered.

Structure mechanics should give people prizes they want to take and assets worth defending against their rivals and competitors who have similar resources to them. They should not be unassailable fortresses capable of repelling almost anything that can hold billions upon billions of assets with near zero risk of anyone ever being able to harm them.

Being the aggressor in a highsec conflict being too hard is a real problem, it allows merc alliances like mine to monopolize PVP in highsec because we are good at it and that's super unhealthy.

Future highsec structures should be closer to POCOs than towers, people can actually fight over those.
Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-05-13 05:17:56 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I anticipate these things being a monumental pain in the ass in highsec. Particularly if a single structure intended for use by one player is going to be able to repel attacks by capital ships.

That and with them being anchorable anywhere in space and not only at moons, there'll be **** stars at all major instaundock locations ready to scram and pop unlucky pilots.
Lew Dicrous
4th Line
#16 - 2015-05-13 05:55:21 UTC
Meh, they will undoubtedly stick in some entosis-link loophole to turn these into huge "come troll me" signs.

It burns when I PVP

Solecist Project
#17 - 2015-05-13 06:58:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
*pus on Beavis&Butthead*

He said Erection. hehe hehehe.
hehehe.

hehehe.

Errrrrrrrection.
hehehehehe.

hehehehe.

hehe.

Erections definitely can be a PITA.
Sheesh, so subtle sense of humour, OP has. ^_^

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#18 - 2015-05-13 07:53:43 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
There's a difference between something being survivable enough to be practical and it being excessively difficult to destroy them.

POSes being able to equip modules intended to protect them against fleets of capital ships in space where capital ships are inherently cannot be used for offense is fundamentally unbalanced. Particularly considering the low time and isk investment required to set up tower and the near zero risk of losing its contents in highsec versus the fairly expensive fleet, 50+ man hours, severe risk and total lack of reward (due to the ability to remove or trash all POS contents at any time) when attacking it.

The current mechanics make organic conflicts over active POS structures really, really uncommon and when they do exist they're typically carried out by mercenaries which in turn results in carebear whine about faction battleship+logistics fleets and them being horribly outnumbered.

Structure mechanics should give people prizes they want to take and assets worth defending against their rivals and competitors who have similar resources to them. They should not be unassailable fortresses capable of repelling almost anything that can hold billions upon billions of assets with near zero risk of anyone ever being able to harm them.

Being the aggressor in a highsec conflict being too hard is a real problem, it allows merc alliances like mine to monopolize PVP in highsec because we are good at it and that's super unhealthy.

Future highsec structures should be closer to POCOs than towers, people can actually fight over those.


It is very important to have content that helps bind people to being a part of this world.

I'd say making everyone have a house in space is a great idea, and sure make it safe, no biggie, it helps get new players in and attached, CCP can always add much more challenging siege PvP so that expert PvPers like yourself can enjoy content.

Having content such as safeish Citadels is an idea along the lines of not letting players lose skillpoints.

CCP changed that, and I think that was a good idea, skill gains are very strongly attached to the character, best to keep them forever.

I'd say make small Citadels safe in high sec, and make the gloriously huge content out in the wilds of space.

Variety for everyone, and a path players can tread as they learn more of EVE.


~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~

Solecist Project
#19 - 2015-05-13 08:06:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
You cqn expect that citadels in highsec will not be safe at all.

Anything else would just be silly.

If you can't defend it, you can't have it.

The newplayerargument does not apply.

Growing people into a safe world will render most incapable
of dealing with how the world actually is.

You can not own stuff you can not defend !

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#20 - 2015-05-13 11:06:10 UTC
There's no value at all in something that doesn't actually require effort to have.

If "new players" can just crap out multi-million EHP death stars all over space without there being any reasonable possibility of anyone destroying them then there's no achievement in having one to begin with. Particularly if the thing is able to defend itself without assistance against a 20 man battleship fleet.

One of thing things high security space is in dire need of is points of conflict, which is something new structures can be. It is not in need of more perfectly safe, invulnerable assets. POCOs are a great example of an actually good mechanic, people continuously fight over the rights for them, they're cheap as hell but can't defend themselves, as a result conflicts of various scale happen involving them depending on where they are.

I don't care about me personally having things to shoot at, I've never had problems finding reasons to shoot things. What I'm tired of is nobody but us dedicated PVP people ever having the desire or ability to shoot at things. I want to see carebears reinforcing eachothers POS structures like they occasionally do POCOs.
123Next pageLast page