Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This change, as well as the equally idiotic "remove newb corps" change, will destroy the game's economy when all the ******* logistics people quit the game after about a week having to haul tritanium in blockade runners. People suggesting this crap just have no clue at all. Nobody is going to invest 8 billion ISK into a freighter that's more than marginally killable when performing its intended role.

Seriously suggesting something like this makes it abundantly clear you have no clue at all. It's really precious that people actually believe it's good for the game for people to have to do **** like form up escort fleets for jump freighters at every goddamn jump waypoint from Jita to the 0.0 home station. Do you torture small animals for fun in your spare time? Because this suggestion is about that level of sadism. Freighter escort ops are about as much fun as eye surgery, it's worse than structure shooting and forcing people to do this to live in 0.0 means they don't live in 0.0 or they quit the game.

It is also not possible to move **** in a freighter safely. You can get about 80-90% safety by webbing it into warp, but you can't get 100%. Further, there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to prevent a suicide gank from occurring once they're bumping you. It doesn't matter how many friends you have with you, it's almost impossible to scout the gank ahead of time because any innocuous neutral could be their bumper. Once the freighter is being bumped the rest can take all the time in the world flying over to you. CONCORD protects the bumper and their suicide gank ships from being preemptively killed, so there's jack **** you can do to prevent the gank.

1st paragraph of rage tears - if adding risk to your eve activities makes you quit - I won't miss you.

2nd paragraph of name calling and just plain freaking out that you might be inconvenienced - your inablity to see how exploding convoys would bring glorious epic play time to many across the eve universe just makes me sad. It's not about the one (you) it's about the many (me).

3rd paragraph where you prove beyond any doubt that you are a product of our entitled society - you're claim that 80-90% safety isn't enough got me chuckling, but then when you as goon starts arguing that there is nothing you can do once they start bumping you - that is where I fell out of my chair and almost go fired. On the first account - whining about a mere 80-90% safety actually speaks for itself - you sir are a pampered ninny w/ an overdeveloped sense of entitlement. On the second accout - it's your dear dear bretheren who have been imploring for 5 years that a bumped freighter has many various avenues to escape a gank. Perhaps you could produce a memo proving which one of you is correct.

Please post all the mails from other jf pilots begging for you to stop helping them argue this. It's rare for me to bother with saving posts from these forums, but this one.... pure gold. Thank you for helping me get through the day.

We need a vote. Is he for real or for troll?? I'm not sure.

Did you play the game before JFs existed and before using Carriers to move stuff was a thing? I did. It was almost impossible to acquire anything in nullsec at anything approaching a reasonable price. Most 0.0 corps at that time had to go with essentially Communist ship doctrines where everyone flew one of three prefit ships and nothing else in order to simplify logistics. The members had to be badgered into horribly boring, completely unfun freighter ops where you and 100 others followed freighters around for 60 jumps. 1 minute align time on each gate. 1-2 minutes waiting for it to come out of warp on the other end. It was like slamming your nuts in a vise, it was anti-fun.

Not only do you want to bring back everything costing 10x as much in nullsec, but you actually want to make it worse because now you need X seperate escort fleets where X is the number of jumps required to get from highsec to your main 0.0 station. This suggestion might have had merit before jump fatigue became a thing and you could just use Titans for logistics, having them bridge the escort fleet along with the cargo. Now? It's just a supremely terrible idea that does nothing but make all of nullsec's lives miserable.

The sheer ignorance here.

WH mining could literally NEVER pick up the slack if all NS mining were to stop today. Not in your wildest dreams, which from nearly every one of your ignorant, half-brained, misinformed posts here have signaled to me that they must be pretty wild.

There are not nearly enough gila or orthrus (faction ships in general) prints/ships/etc available in this game to allow for a complete reshipping from Ishtars. Darkness and it's allies alone were enough to wipe out the TFI market in a short time. And btw, how do you expect to get those ships? Don't suppose you know where the bulk of faction prints come from do you..........? Ya, I thought not.

Faction ships would rocket to 1 billion a piece in no time and only go up from there. We're likely in the neighborhood of 1.5-2 easy, because not only are the prints going to become more rare as people empty out of null, but the high end mineral market will skyrocket as well.

The eve economy would adjust, but I highly doubt EVE would survive another massive blow to logistics without massive compensation and rebalancing. Such changes would bring about market prices which would completely bar entry to new players who quickly find prices quickly inflating around them past what their skills will allow them to generate. Add to that the multitude of players that will quit the game because they can no longer sustain their EVE gamestyle and would rather do something more productive with their time than join a freighter escort fleet once or twice a week like in days of yore.

The only thing you're experienced in is shooting things. You've likely never had to worry about logistics on a level past your personal modules and ships. My guess your idea of logistics is jumping to Jita in a T1/T2 hauler or covop, grabbing what you want and burning back to your WH. You quite literally live in a bubble. I dare you to venture out for a while and experience the game as a whole like many null dwellers have done over the years which is what has lead to many of us being so bitter.


/BeginHateFilledRant
A good friend in my corp just left EVE for good the other day simply because of the upcoming changes for what it would do to market stability, contract hunting, movement of goods, and construction of capitals and subcaps alike. We are losing a great friend, the pirates are losing multiple targets to hunt, and CCP is losing in the neighborhood of 20 odd accounts. How in the hell is this good for the well being of the game??? Him leaving is yet another reason I have to not play this game myself. There are even players in goons that I would be sad to see quit! Our space friends and enemies are the only thing that have kept this game alive over the years. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm sorry CCP but you've had many screwups over the years that have tested your community from bad patches to refusal to police your own game and remove the trash or deter abuse of mechanics. Player counts over the past several years are a testament to this.

I mean, I have never been so angered in my life by reading people's views over a video game it's ridiculous. I even tried taking a few days to step away from this post and here it remains. I usually like making an analogy to real life, but I can't think of one here. I mean who in real life would complain that their hamburgers are being kept too cheap because meat was too easy to obtain and transport? That doesn't even make sense.

EVE itself was once known for being a place of respectable and smart players who had an obsession with spreadsheets and min/maxing activities. All aspects of these have slipped away almost entirely. It's almost as if EVE has become the catch basin for banned League of Legends players who believe they are always in the right despite their extremely limited views and experience. The same players who consider the players providing them their ships for content AS content rather than those who can defend themselves and fight back and cry that the near defenseless are too safe because they can slip away if they do their due diligence.
/EndHateFilledRant


I'm done with the post. I realize it was a mistake to look back at it now in hindsight. I hope some of you learn a little more about the game you play in the times ahead so you can look back at your posts and laugh that you ever thought this way. But I doubt it, those bubbles are pretty easy to stay in and CCP has failed to give many a reason to leave and experience the universe as a whole.

With the new structures coming into play I think this a good idea.

Station will have weapons, Player Controlled, even in High sec.
They won't a have to be at a set location.

Local economies would have a stronger chance to survive , since the life line to Jita won't be cheap,

In the small renter alliance I was once in we used freighters worm holes to get our supplies in and out of our portion of space.

There should be risk involved in moving material from point A to point B.

Soon all the tools to be independent in null sec space will be there. and once that happen I would like to see the nerf to JF happen. Then, when coming to market warfare,.... Eve becomes a Much Much Larger place

All this because you can't light a cyno on an undock anymore?? Get a hold of yourself laddy. It's not going to be that bad.

I bet you were one of the dudes that got stressed out and upset when designers went from the one piece dress swimsuits to the bikini. You probably claimed it would ruin everything. Distracted drivers, hot dog wagon collisions, debauchery.... the end of society.

EVE is not just an economy. It is a game environment (a world), of which its economy is only one aspect. Other aspects include the society/societies of the player population, the spaceship/space object interactions, the inner life, thoughts, feelings, motivations of the individual players, etc. What is bad for the economy may very well be great for other aspects of the game.

What is "good" and "bad" for an economy is subjective. Jump freighters smooth out a lot of the scarcity in the economy, which suppresses volatilities and disparities in price and supply, but that isn't a "good" thing to everyone.
If there is no premium paid for goods and services ANYWHERE, then you can expect that those goods and services will be most likely produced and rendered where it is most efficient to produce and render them. In practice, this means that anything that can be produced or rendered in high sec will be. There is no premium, no extra incentive to do most things anywhere else. Is that "good"?

Monopolization can only occur in the case that there is an absolute necessity for some good or service and an absolute inability to obtain that good or service except from one source by one mean. Even without jump freighters, as long as there are Condors, there will never be a monopoly on Crows. As long as I can build a Crow, I will never NEED to buy one from someone else. As long as there are alternatives that can be acquired or alternative means of acquiring the same things, it is difficult to impossible to create a monopoly by anyone.
Besides that, we might again ask whether something, monopolies in this case, is "good" or "bad".

I think a better question to ask is this: Are monopolies, volatility, disparity, scarcity . . . are these things fun?

The key here is when NS has greater independence that it currently does. They change to ore sites in null was a step in the right direction, but I'm far from convinced it is enough.

Oh...and think of this: once NS gets more independent AND you nerf JFs...getting that moon goo and high ends into empire to sell will be more problematic...basically a nice nerf to HS too.

The problem with your self importance is that there is no external cure. Moon Goo itself is a passive isk cancer. It's part of the engine that drives certain monopolies in the game. Your desire to preserve the status quo on moon goo makes it clear that you are part of that cancer.

I'll leave you with this. Every job that is too difficult, tedious or boring for someone as elite as you to do will be eagerly picked up by some other guy within hours of you discarding it. That's the real heart of eve. All I'm getting from you is that you are lazy and are fretting over having to do things YOU consider boring and a waste of time.

You don't want to see risk in your eve endeavors (in this case JF ops). Tell me what do you want? I'm getting the feeling you want to lord over a few 1000 folks and rake in the sweat of their brows. Has executive outcomes become that detached from actually playing the game? or is it just you that desires safe play as a null entity?

I've played straight through since my born on date - no breaks - I love this game. The biggest thing that brings me down is the overall transformation in SOV null. I've watched as the game has transformed from fun, epic and exciting as different groups carved out their territories. There were great wars with meaning. There were betrayals. There were epic last stands. Now... Null entities go to war on the forums against CCP and against change. On occaision it has been to influence game change to promote stability. In game it's about how to work together to not upset the apple cart. Null used to be about greater risk yields greater reward. Look at the forums objectively - you guys are about business, isk and how to tend to your herds. In short - you've collectively lost your will to play the game with guns and force. Look at this thread - large null groups pleading (yeah pleading [wtf] that the game will be ruined if JF don't have 99.9% safety in their operations, and then you invoke a bunch of 'the game will collapse' flak in an attempt to keep folks in line.

TL/DR I'm sad that sov null is a bunch of business suit sissies.

I think the big trick is to impose a system where 500 guys working together is fun, 5000 working together is just too much effort and/or not fun, and there is no way to get two or more groups of 5000 to ever work together. Right now to go to SOV null the options are join a big guy, rent from a big guy or get your dreams crushed. That's just not cool.

My take is there is a large difference in what 5000 cfc pilots want to do for fun and what the 8 guys leading it want to do for fun. Take jump fatigue. Those 8 guys put up a massive wall of 'this will end eve', 'subs will be pulled', and so on. What is really happening? Eve stagnation is breaking up a bit. Not everyone is listening to 8 guys give orders. There are rumors of actual meaningful pvp.

I think at the end of the day, if CCP brought back the wild west then 8 angry businessmen would rage quite and 5000 other dudes would quick enough figure what to do next. I really believe that and I really believe they would only be risking 8 subs not 5000 when they do it. We could get philisophical about passive moon isk, SRP being equivalent to eve corprate wellfare and a whole bunch of stuff. How to herd cats AND have fun 301 should be a required course for alliance leaders.

JF cynos moving off the station probably won't change much of anything. As always, the smart and cautious will survive... they'll just have to do a little work to get there. The careless and cocky will get what they deserve. What personally irks me is the free ride JF pilots currently have. No risk is BS. The fact that folks actually argue that it NEEDS to be easy AND risk free to allow others to play the game just rubs my fur wrong on a couple of levels (the entitlement thing).

Final note - a group of 100 men don't need a leader, a group of 100 men creates a leader. Eve and on a grand scale humanity doesn't need any SPECIFIC leader - the group always provides the leadership it needs in due time.