Player Features and Ideas Discussion

When the rocket ship is slower than most ships below Battle Cruiser size. The Jackdaw's base speed is 170m/s. If you want to keep your target from flying out of your range you will likely want to use a web. If it is another brawler, than you will want to keep him from escaping or give yourself a chance to escape.

Plus being slow you probably want to use a Scram over Disruptor to turn off MWD, so you should be in web range any way.

But it is PVP, and so can't be waved away entirely as a balance concern like PvE can be by most, and FW is mostly frigate/destroyer pvp, so listening closely to FW about frigates and destroyers seems wise.

They should be one voice, not the only voice. They do definately need to be listened to, as making a cancer on any one area of the game for any other (t3s for WHs being cancer on the rest of eve) is bad design and business.

T3s were a cancer on the rest of eve as they played a vastly different power curve because they were balanced around the sleeper sites, which can get to be absolutely brutal in C6 sites. When the rest of eve started getting in on these awesome death machines, they started dunking on pretty much everything else, thus the t3 nerfs, and the SP loss, and and and. They were built without input from everywhere being considered, and with small gang in mind, so little attention was paid to just how awesomely they scaled with various things, like links or numbers.

As for FW isk, if you are farming the missions, I have seen numbers of 300m/hr quoted and then backed by wallet logs. So, 3 PVP ships/hr if you are good at your farming.

Of the opinion that this is a pretty poor choice you've made Fozzie. Please give the ship an explosion radius and an explosion velocity bonus.

Would it be op if it got 64 PG?

Considering it becomes medium easy to squeeze on a faction/storyline LSE then? probably.

Well if 64 is op then I like it, it looks like a solid ship that may escape a further nerfbatting.

There is an obvious logical fallacy in the claim that "no ship can compete with ship XXX in solo pvp".

Clearly, the same ship will always be a fair fight for the same ship.

So, what do we really want to say?

We need to think hard for a few moments, so we don't step in a pile of farce.

Do we want all the ships to be the same, ensuring a "fair fight" no matter what?

No, because this creates zurgism, and blob mechanics rule. There is nothing fair about 10 ships killing 2 ships. Everyone hates that.

Do we wish to prevent ultra powerful ships from roaming eve and doing whatever they wish, and generally allowing a certain type of risk averse player to win pvp by choice of ship alone?

Maybe. That would depend on subscriber demographics. if Eve is populated by ship spinning cowards, CCP are going to need a business model that caters for that reality. Am I going to support their jobs and families if they fail to give their customers what they want?

No. I am not. CCP are on their own with their demographic, and Eve will evolve accordingly.

One of the truly inspired and great things about FW is that the system of gates and please provides the ingredients required to facilitate "fair fights", without being overly restrictive about what ships can participate.

FW plexes do not just limit ship classes, they also provide an early warning system so that blobs are frustrated. You don't need to be brilliant on the d scan to know when a blob is about to drop.

This cannot be underestimated. FW would not exist without this blob prevention mechanic. FW really is small gangs waiting to see if other small gangs want a fair (it) fight. The artificial mechanics facilitate this, and they generate content as a result.

One of the structural and axiomatic problems with generating content in Null Sov territory is that the meta game takes over, and the desires of the corp leadership in null no longer match the desire of players to get stuck in and have brawling fights.

The mata game rewards "big deals", and big deals in null establish their grand reputation by owning vast territories, and by blobbing to this end. that i not anyone's fault, it is just a case of "show me the incentive, I will show you the outcome".

The meta game has evolved to establish that the metrics for success in null are to blob and hold territory. They do not reward, culturally or through in game economics, the generation of content for small gangs looking for fights: i.e. content.

So, what?

So, I submit that we need to pay due respect to why FW works, and why the mechanics that make it work achieve their aims.

That is, if we want content for pew hungry maniacs, the best of whom are manifest by the Gallente militia.

They came with drones, the courage of lions, and shiny principles. They left New Eden a better place for small children and warm puppies.

Gal Mil hoo-rah.

Agreed. I think both the Rocket brawler and LML fit would work well in small gangs. Both will have excellent volley damage. If applied to webbed frigates, we could be looking at a real killer.

I also agree that it doesn't look like a ship that can solo in any way, shape or form. I see this as a bad thing, because both the Svipul and Confessor can solo pretty well. Not in all circumstances, of course, but enough that my WiP Jackdaw fits seem lackluster in comparison.