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We cannot trust the empires.
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Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#21 - 2015-05-08 22:33:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
This is not a call for power; it is a call for the DED and Sisters to release information on the Tyrannos that has been hidden from us. Without knowing the truth about these entities, we cannot determine the correct course of action.

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#22 - 2015-05-08 22:34:02 UTC
Jvpiter wrote:


Yes, let us raise the pitchforks against CONCORD. I am sure the prices of minerals and other goods won't change in any drastic way if CONCORD disappeared tomorrow.


The solution, if there is one, must include CONCORD not exclude it.


And distrusting the Empires? Start a new life in K-space then.





I am not calling for an end to CONCORD. I am calling for accountability. Silencing the news is not good for anyone. This danger deserves a unified response. DED is preventing us from properly defending ourselves from this threat.

You are correct any solution must include CONCORD. However, right now CONCORD is not including us.

Watch me live for all your Empyrean news and analysis!

Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#23 - 2015-05-08 22:35:39 UTC
There is no need for them to release information unless we are able to act upon with a specific goal in mind. They might be withholding what they know because capsuleers might end up doing more damage with it than good.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu
Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#24 - 2015-05-08 22:37:57 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
There is no need for them to release information unless we are able to act upon with a specific goal in mind. They might be withholding what they know because capsuleers might end up doing more damage with it than good.


I am surprised that you would disagree. Your home is currently under siege by the Drifters, and if Tukos' message is any indication the next wave could be disastrous.

Given the players involved are outside of the bounds of the Empire, including several criminal organizations, do you really trust them to know better how to defend your home then you?

Watch me live for all your Empyrean news and analysis!

Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#25 - 2015-05-08 22:41:32 UTC
Because, unlike you, I trust the nation I am loyal to. If the Empire needs the information the DED, SoE and Eifyr & Co. are holding then we will act accordingly.

This is an extremely delicate situation, which requires extremely delicate handling. Capsuleers are not delicate. We will be told things when we need to know them.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2015-05-08 22:46:10 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
As usual, Lt. Kernher is the only voice of reason in this thread.

CONCORD and the DED exist to keep order in the cluster by preventing full-scale war between the empires and regulating international trade and law. However, one of their most important tasks it to regulate us, which they already do a poor enough job at. The only people who want more freedom for capsuleers are those that want to abuse those freedoms, or short-sighted fools like the OP.

For the billionth time, capsuleers do not need more freedom or power. Capsuleers on the whole are stupid, spoiled, self-centered glorified ship CPUs that could not make a moral judgement to save their next clone. Anyone who speaks as though we should have more rights than any baseliner is an utter idiot.

So please, stop being idiots. Just this once. For me?



No Aldrith.

This is what I've been saying since the Sansha incursions started five years ago. This wasn't stuff I pulled out of the ether. This was based on years of malfeasance and corruption on the part of CONCORD and the abject refusal of the Empress and the Theology Council to do anything except mollify them in the interests of "peace." Yet instead of peace, we've had five plus years of endless war.

How many millions of the Faith have died because of CONCORD and the DED's endless puppet-mastery? How many more must die before you realize that this is not the Empire we once swore to defend? There is precedent. When the people in power fail to serve God and the people of Amarr, then those people must be made to answer for that failure. To God, if needs be.

But don't just take my word for it. Look man! Check the records! Look at the things objectively. Use your gift for strategy and tactics and see!

This is not the same Empire we once swore to defend. But it can be.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#27 - 2015-05-08 22:51:01 UTC
And what would you have us do? Fight CONCORD, fight the Minmatar, fight the Gallente, fight the Sansha, fight the Blood Raiders, and now fight the Drifters? At least let us take one at a time! I swear the longer I spend in this madhouse the less everyone makes sense.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#28 - 2015-05-08 23:03:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
With all due respect, anyone who says that CONCORD must do this or must do that has an over-developed sense of entitlement. Certainly, it would be wise for CONCORD to provide us more information about this threat, so that we may better put it into context with Caroline's Star, Prosper Vault, and the ruins of wormhole space. It would be wise to provide us with information so that we are prepared to serve once again as the line of defense against a new threat, as we have before and will again.

At the same time, they do not necessarily owe us anything, and the bleating of some of the capsuleers in this group does us no service.

Why, after all, should they trust us with information if they are attempting to prevent another war on the scale of the campaign against the Sansha? Or if they do not want hundreds or thousands of blood-thirsty capsuleers broadcasting threats of genocide and total war? Or if they do not want capsuleers clambering at CONCORD's treasury, asking contributions from what is surely a diminishing war chest?

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Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2015-05-08 23:14:48 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
And what would you have us do? Fight CONCORD, fight the Minmatar, fight the Gallente, fight the Sansha, fight the Blood Raiders, and now fight the Drifters? At least let us take one at a time! I swear the longer I spend in this madhouse the less everyone makes sense.



No. CONCORD only has as much power as we let them have. Kick them out. Amarr, Gallente, Caldari, Minmatar...no one needs them.

As I was saying in a previous thread, the Reclaiming ceased to be important a long time ago. We can make our own peace accords with the Republic and by extension, the Federation. No central government is willing to commit all out war at this point because even if they won, they would be open to attack from everything else.

Instead of poking fun at people like Max Singularity, get him on board. His forces could mount an attack that would end the reign of Bloody Omir. Cut the head off and the Blooders become as dangerous as the EOM. The same goes for the Nation. Cut off the head. Could any of them stand up to the Empire if our hands weren't tied by CONCORD?

As for the Drifters...do you really have confidence, knowing how CONCORD has dealt with the other threats, that CONCORD is in any position to support the Empire? They are a stone around the neck of Amarr.

In the past, the Jove were the "fifth" great civilization. Their technological superiority helped keep things in check. But now they are dead. Now those that are left must learn on their own to make peace. Peace must be created and nurtured. It can't be imposed from without. CONCORD would have Amarr be slaves to an imposed peace. Amarr are slaves only to God. The Empire needs to be Imperial again.



"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-05-09 00:00:28 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
With all due respect, anyone who says that CONCORD must do this or must do that has an over-developed sense of entitlement. Certainly, it would be wise for CONCORD to provide us more information about this threat, so that we may better put it into context with Caroline's Star, Prosper Vault, and the ruins of wormhole space. It would be wise to provide us with information so that we are prepared to serve once again as the line of defense against a new threat, as we have before and will again.

At the same time, they do not necessarily owe us anything, and the bleating of some of the capsuleers in this group does us no service.

Why, after all, should they trust us with information if they are attempting to prevent another war on the scale of the campaign against the Sansha? Or if they do not want hundreds or thousands of blood-thirsty capsuleers broadcasting threats of genocide and total war? Or if they do not want capsuleers clambering at CONCORD's treasury, asking contributions from what is surely a diminishing war chest?


On the contrary it may well not be wise for CONCORD to disseminate information as yet. Often the power of information is in others *not* knowing how much you know...
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#31 - 2015-05-09 00:30:49 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
And what would you have us do? Fight CONCORD, fight the Minmatar, fight the Gallente, fight the Sansha, fight the Blood Raiders, and now fight the Drifters? At least let us take one at a time! I swear the longer I spend in this madhouse the less everyone makes sense.


Are you kidding me??

We're a bunch of psychotic immortals with a web of relationships, influence and skullduggery thats so complex it resembles something produced by sticking a food mixer in a box of loose thread and you expect things to make sense??

Does an alliance declaring their own Amarr emperor make sense??
Does fighting for that nutjob Sansha make sense??
Does starting a major interstellar war over a mistranslated word make sense??
Does breaking up an alliance with territory covering three regions over a single lost force recon ship make sense??
These are all things capsuleers have done.

CONCORD and the empires are right not to trust us, just as we are right never to trust them. They have no reason to tell us the truth about anything unless it suits their agenda, just as we do to each other. Its one of the main reasons I stay in low sec, most pirates are at least honest about wanting to screw you over for their own profit.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#32 - 2015-05-09 01:07:06 UTC
And yet we are not the ones imprisoning baseliner reporters. We are not the one interfering with transmissions that regard the safety of everyone. We are immortal. The Drifters are a plaything for us. Do they have to blow up a planet before anyone realizes that the true enemy are those who seek to enable this new threat?

Yes we have done some fairly crazy things, but we are the only ones actually doing something about this. The golden fleet is mobilizing to defend their space. Clearly they agree this is a threat.

Watch me live for all your Empyrean news and analysis!

Deceiver's Echo
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#33 - 2015-05-09 01:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Deceiver's Echo
Ashterothi wrote:
Do they have to blow up a planet before anyone realizes that the true enemy are those who seek to enable this new threat?

If the Drifters blow up a planet, then they are the threat. Not those who, in your eyes, enable the threat. CONCORD is not enabling this threat. They are dealing with the threat in the few ways they are allowed to by the Empires. I guess a question I would have is this; is it right to cause panic?

That is what the release of information outside of normal channels has done. The need for calm outweighs the need for information if that information is not complete. I agree that the arrest of those who leaked the information is a bad decision, and does not make the situation better. In fact, it has exacerbated the fear and frustration. However the decision has been made. Information has been gained. Sowing distrust and anger towards authorities will not help the situation. Calmly addressing concerns, and outlining preferred course of action may.

I understand the fear many are feeling. Now is the time to be calm. Now is the time, if you so choose, to prepare. Trust that if we are attacked by this new threat there will be retaliation, and it will be swift. We will adapt and move forward.
Markus Error
Manfios
#34 - 2015-05-09 01:35:33 UTC
CONCORD seems to habe gotten itself ***-backwards.

The CONCORD Assembly exists to both enforce peace and law in the cluster. And yet, it seems instead of amswering to the empires collectively (as it should be) the empires answer more and more to them.

I don't think CONCORD needs to be abolished entirely, merely renewed and restored to its original purpose. Namely, law enforcement and a representative assembly for the empires.

"If it cannot be shot the #### down, it can always be blown the #### up."

-Unknown
Cakzad Arcashiri
Arcashiri Family
#35 - 2015-05-09 02:17:02 UTC
The Unbound are not to be trusted. They are no greater then humans, aka 'baseliners'.

But I trust that this is all a part of God's plan. Let his will be done.

"I give to you the destiny of Faith,

And you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens:

Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given."

- The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 22:13
Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#36 - 2015-05-09 03:42:07 UTC
Ashterothi wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
It is clear from this thread that it is CONCORD that you have no trust in, not the empires. The empires are not to blame for CONCORD's activities. CONCORD does not represent the empires, and it hasn't for a long time.


The Empires grant CONCORD their authority. And also house several other organizations that seem to be involved in this. If they wish to be upfront, they should side with us and assist in the exposing of the darkness they are hiding.

Although I fight for the Federation, there are questions throughout. It is time for the Empires to prove not only their trustworthiness to Empyreans, but their loyalty to the safety of their citizens.


Let us also not forget that it is not just SOE wreckage we found in Thera. There is also Thukker wreckage, which Sanmatar Shakor claimed was destroyed at SL-YBS when in fact it was not, and he now refuses to comment upon because it is in effect a state secret. And today we know why. The Empires are not innocent in this.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#37 - 2015-05-09 03:47:44 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
And what would you have us do? Fight CONCORD, fight the Minmatar, fight the Gallente, fight the Sansha, fight the Blood Raiders, and now fight the Drifters? At least let us take one at a time! I swear the longer I spend in this madhouse the less everyone makes sense.


The Drifters come to fight you, whether you wish it or not.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#38 - 2015-05-09 08:51:34 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
This is not a call for power; it is a call for the DED and Sisters to release information on the Tyrannos that has been hidden from us. Without knowing the truth about these entities, we cannot determine the correct course of action.


What makes you think capsuleers would be any good at determining a course of action, sir ?

Capsuleers ?

That must be a joke.
iyammarrok
Drunken Beaver Mining
Gnawthority
#39 - 2015-05-09 09:30:12 UTC
Funny thing Borkstar, a couple of weeks ago you were claiming to BE part of DED....

seems your claims are mutually exclusive there.

Unless you are saying you were telling everyone not to trust you either. Which would probably be in everyone's best interest.

Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#40 - 2015-05-09 10:08:17 UTC
I fail to see how the State has done anything in the current situation to justify a loss of trust. I will say that, given the revelations of the Eifyr & Co.'s inability to communicate important information, I am less inclined to trust them. But they are a Republic corporation.

Perhaps Mr. Tukoss would have been better off staying with Zainu.
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