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Hulk Ore hold, slight adjustment

Author
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-05-08 23:49:17 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
Isn't this ship supposed to be only effective when used in fleet (because it needs a hauler to be efficient) ? So if in a fleet, that DOES mean she should have a boost, and a mining boost if used correctly. And the combat drones of the hulk can't properly defend her against null-sec rats or any kind of other pvp players, so that does mean mining drones are the (not only but mainly) viable option for the Hulk.
This makes me think that the proposition is fine, it's not a even a buff but a adjusment, not a big deal.

Individually combat drones aren't viable, but in groups, which as you state is the intended role of the ship they accumulated drone firepower should rival that of smaller groups. I'd say combining drone firepower places the idea of only mining drone being viable as a questionable proposition.
Ganael Hartsong
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2015-05-08 23:51:55 UTC
You can have 5 mining drones and 5 light drones in an hulk. So, no problem there.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-05-08 23:54:42 UTC
Which leaves the argument back at square 1 since the argument was mining drone being the only right choice for the Hulk. On that reasoning alone it doesn't really work out.
Ganael Hartsong
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-05-09 00:01:30 UTC
Sorry, I think you should ready what was posted before again. The whole argument does not rely on mining drones being the only viable options for the hulk. It rely on the case that the hulk is missing a couple of hundred m3 to actually have the ore hold to sustain 2 full mining cycles including mining drones.

And you can have both mining and fighting drones in your drone bay, allowing to switch between them if you need to defend yourself.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-05-09 00:08:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Ganael Hartsong wrote:
Sorry, I think you should ready what was posted before again. The whole argument does not rely on mining drones being the only viable options for the hulk. It rely on the case that the hulk is missing a couple of hundred m3 to actually have the ore hold to sustain 2 full mining cycles including mining drones.

And you can have both mining and fighting drones in your drone bay, allowing to switch between them if you need to defend yourself.

I responded to a particular point with a counterpoint and your statement afterwards. That was all. Fitting 2 cycles using the full yield capacity the ship has to offer wasn't what I was responding to itself, but rather the idea that mining drones being the "right" choice was a proper justification for that viewpoint.
Ganael Hartsong
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-05-09 00:09:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganael Hartsong
Ok that makes more sense. I'm not a native english speaker, so maybe i'm not getting everything that is said. Going back to this argument (of the drone being the only choice for hulk), i think he was simply putting a bit of emphasis to make up his point. Mining drones do in fact make sense for hulks, especially if you have another way to defend yourself (a pvp toon for example). If you don't, it's a trade off (You're basically getting light drones instead of medium one, making battleship sized rats harder to kill)
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#27 - 2015-05-09 00:12:19 UTC
While I do not mine very much anymore, and despite that you are part of The Bastion, I have to agree that the ore hold for the Hulk could use a little buff.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Ganael Hartsong
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2015-05-09 00:18:43 UTC
Petrified wrote:
While I do not mine very much anymore, and despite that you are part of The Bastion, I have to agree that the ore hold for the Hulk could use a little buff.


Thank you for mending fences, whatever they might be :)
Shai'd Hulud
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-05-09 01:33:58 UTC
I like your suggestion in OP.
+1 for me
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#30 - 2015-05-09 02:41:07 UTC
Ganael Hartsong wrote:
You seem very angry.


I cry when people lie.

The hulks yield is not crippled by Its ore bay, its only ever a problem when you multi-box with more hulks than you can keep up with. Who said you were supposed to easily multi-box with multiple hulks? For that I refer back to my previous posts.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Siigari Kitawa
Operation Sleepless
#31 - 2015-05-09 03:09:04 UTC
I overload after 1 cycle. I think my yield is 4416 or something.

Anyway, I sometimes forget to empty my hold. My bad. The thing is if we increase it to allow 2 cycles, then people will complain when they don't empty after 2 cycles and want 3 cycles.

Honestly I love that I mine so much I have to dump every 70 seconds or I get penalized. It makes mining engaging and I have a real sense of accomplishment because I am good at it.

Even though I'd love a massive Hulk ore hold, I am against increasing it right now.

Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#32 - 2015-05-09 09:39:16 UTC
Ganael Hartsong wrote:
I disagree, i think every ship should offer the chance to be used fully. I wouldn't even mind a slight reduction in yield instead of a ore hold buff to fix this problem.


The slight reduction in yield you want is not using mining drones...

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Ganael Hartsong
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2015-05-09 12:14:25 UTC
I can easily keep up with my hulk cycles even when multiboxing, that is not the point. Not using mining drone is not the point either. If you still wonder what the point is, please read above.
Rosira
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2015-05-09 14:18:24 UTC
Deal with it.
I don't multimine anymore but never had any issue with the ore bay size when I did and currently if it fills up when I'm not paying attention its user error for not keeping tabs better.

Want more ore bay space then change ships and accept that there will be a loss in yield, that it was chosen and has been the number it is for a long time speaks that it was done with an intent for that number. What could do with a ore bay increase is the Orca.
Ganael Hartsong
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2015-05-09 14:29:48 UTC
We're are talking about an increase of ore hold of 100 to 500 m3 here. It's not about buffing the hulk, it's about adjusting it to make it clean considering all variables: cycles, boosts, and mining drones.
Iain Cariaba
#36 - 2015-05-09 20:23:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Iain Cariaba
Ganael Hartsong wrote:
I can easily keep up with my hulk cycles even when multiboxing, that is not the point. Not using mining drone is not the point either. If you still wonder what the point is, please read above.

Then you don't have a point. You want the ore hold ineased because it's harder for you to multibox, but you can easily keep up when multiboxing as it currently sits. You're willing to take a cut in yield to make it all fit, but suggesting you voluntarily reduce your yield to make it all fit by not using mining drones or adjusting your fit is immediatly dismissed by you, and we're called trolls for pointing it out.

Ganael Hartsong wrote:
We're are talking about an increase of ore hold of 100 to 500 m3 here. It's not about buffing the hulk, it's about adjusting it to make it clean considering all variables: cycles, boosts, and mining drones.

No, it's about changing the game to reflect the way you play it. Nothing more.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2015-05-09 20:38:03 UTC
+1 for small ore hold buff

a simple 5.9% increase would fix all the issues the hulk has at being decently efficient.



saying stuff like fit a damage control... if I did that I might as well just use a skiff.
don't use mining drones... its like telling an Ishtar not to use drones.
Iain Cariaba
#38 - 2015-05-09 21:01:24 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
+1 for small ore hold buff

a simple 5.9% increase would fix all the issues the hulk has at being decently efficient.



saying stuff like fit a damage control... if I did that I might as well just use a skiff.
don't use mining drones... its like telling an Ishtar not to use drones.

Oh look, you're being forced to either adjust your fit away from max yield to be able to pay more attention to other things, or pay more attention to the game to get max yield.

Pretty sure the phrase "working as intended" applies here.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#39 - 2015-05-09 22:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Ganael Hartsong wrote:
We're are talking about an increase of ore hold of 100 to 500 m3 here. It's not about buffing the hulk, it's about adjusting it to make it clean considering all variables: cycles, boosts, and mining drones.


But it is a buff to the hulk, and as many others giving +1 to your post are arguing, it makes multi-boxing with more hulks easier and more lucrative.

Satisfying your ocd does not justify making that which was deliberately meant to be difficult, easier.

Before the bonuses were changed from mining amount to mining cycle, the hulk could barely hold one cycle. this was the original intention. A high yield but high maintainance barge. Not a multi-boxing platform.


Use a Mack. They were in fact designed to be low maintainance.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#40 - 2015-05-09 22:11:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Ncc 1709 wrote:
+1 for small ore hold buff

a simple 5.9% increase would fix all the issues the hulk has at being decently efficient.



saying stuff like fit a damage control... if I did that I might as well just use a skiff.
don't use mining drones... its like telling an Ishtar not to use drones.


A hulk with a damage control mines a lot more than a skiff and has more range.

Trade-offs. Eve is full of them.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

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