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Why no love for our logistics?

Author
Cycule
Resilience.
Initiative Mercenaries
#1 - 2015-05-07 15:19:44 UTC
Why no love for our logistics?

Over the last couple of years CCP has developed some fine Logistics ships. The Navitas, the Inquisitor, the Burst, the Bantam all originally small mining frigates changed into logistics ships with good bonus for remote armor repairing and remote shield repairing. The same can be said for our cruiser level logi’s. These would be our Augoror, Exequror, Scythe and Osprey . The difference here is that CCP gave the cruiser level logistic ships a T2 Variant. . I feel like CCP miss something here, they did right by making frigate class logistics ships, but failed to give them a T2 Variant. Making a T2 variant of the Frigate class logistics class gates would be very simple to create and they would complement your new addition of T3 Destroyers. I also think the T3 destroyers were a little too early to release when you have no real logistics for the T3 Destroyers. Maybe the focus should have been on a T2 variant of the frigate class logistics? Eve is going into a new SOV mechanic that will rely on small gang activity more often than the past and this would have been a fantastic addition.

As the years passed us by CCP introduce the first battleship class logistic ship called the Nestor. Prior to this, there were no battleship class logistic ships. The problem here is that they only made the Nestor an armor type of logistics ship. Do not get me wrong the ability the nestor brings, matches the reason why it is a faction type battleship and in a class of its own because of the refitting service it has. But unfortunately there has not been a lot of use this ability yet because of the price tag it brings. So why not start with T1 class battleship logistics ship with capabilities of slight increase range of large armor repairing and slight increase of large armor repairer amount. Forcing the use of large armor repairers on a battleship class logistics ship. Right now you can fit dead space medium type armor repairers on a Nestor and get matching range to a large armor repairer and armor repair amount. Seem the whole logistics battleship class was abandoned and went right for the Faction Logistics battleship.

So what do you think People of New Eden, do we want to see T2 Frigate Logistics and T1 Battleship Logistics for shield and armor?

Love to get everyone’s feedback.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2015-05-07 17:15:16 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
FYI:

Tech 2 cruiser Logi ships = battleship class Logi
The reason is because...
- they use large reppers
- they are almost as expensive as battleships.
- the reason they are cruisers is because "real" battleship-class logis would have godawful amounts of HP (150 to 200k ehp compared to 40 to 60k ehp)... and the last thing we need is another VERY powerful force multiplier class (that scales well) with "MOAR HP and MOAR capacitor reserve!"
In fact... it is the lower HP and capacitor pool that are effectively the ONLY weaknesses of T2 Logi Cruisers (aside from the need for some of them to have a "partner").


As for Tech 2 frigate logi... if we follow the same paradigm as T1 and T2 Logi Cruisers then T2 Logi Frigs would be "cruiser-class" logis... able to fit medium sized remote reppers in a frigate sized package with the same benefits of a frigate (see: greater mobility, which is HUGE in EVE).

IMO... logi is already too powerful.
Cycule
Resilience.
Initiative Mercenaries
#3 - 2015-05-07 17:23:08 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
FYI:

Tech 2 cruiser Logi ships = battleship class Logi
The reason is because...
- they use large reppers
- they are almost as expensive as battleships.
- the reason they are cruisers is because "real" battleship-class logis would have godawful amounts of HP (150 to 200k ehp compared to 40 to 60k ehp)... and the last thing we need is another VERY powerful force multiplier class (that scales well) with "MOAR HP and MOAR capacitor reserve!"
In fact... it is the lower HP and capacitor pool that are effectively the ONLY weaknesses of T2 Logi Cruisers (aside from the need for some of them to have a "partner").


As for Tech 2 frigate logi... if we follow the same paradigm as T1 and T2 Logi Cruisers then T2 Logi Frigs would be "cruiser-class" logis... able to fit medium sized remote reppers in a frigate sized package with the same benefits of a frigate (see: greater mobility, which is HUGE in EVE).

IMO... logi is already too powerful.



How about frigates, what's your point of view on a T2 class frigate logi?
Also what's your thoughts on the Nestor?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2015-05-07 19:51:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Tech 2 Frig Logi would equal Tech 1 Cruiser Logi in terms of repping power but with greater mobility (as I pointed out above).

IMO... they are not needed.


edit: also... the Nestor is what happens when the DEV's can't follow the same bonuses and abilities they used with smaller ships on a larger ship of the same line... because the result would be grossly overpowered... but they can't figure out what else to do with it.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2015-05-07 21:11:00 UTC
Domi ws and is the solid choice for RR role and used a lot by during small scale engagements. It's good almost in everything except armor repair and range bonus.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Valkin Mordirc
#6 - 2015-05-07 21:39:14 UTC
With the way Logi currently is handled. T2 Logi Frigates would be OP. Small Sig radius, fast, and such wouldn't be almost impossible to catch and kill effectively.


If they change the way Logi preforms mechanically I then see a use for them. But with the current. I would say it's rather a bad idea.


Sorry man
#DeleteTheWeak
Iyokus Patrouette
Buccaneers of New Eden
Liquor Legion
#7 - 2015-05-08 01:35:33 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Tech 2 Frig Logi would equal Tech 1 Cruiser Logi in terms of repping power but with greater mobility (as I pointed out above).

IMO... they are not needed.


edit: also... the Nestor is what happens when the DEV's can't follow the same bonuses and abilities they used with smaller ships on a larger ship of the same line... because the result would be grossly overpowered... but they can't figure out what else to do with it.


They are almost needed to take advantage of the stupid frigate holes littering wormhole space these days. at the moment it's a case of 'oh look a frigate hole with X fleet through it... never mind can't engage because no logistics can get through'

outside of that i tend to agree we don't need more smaller ships introducing T2 Logi frigates is pretty much the last nail in the coffin for larger hull ships.

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

Apex Bex
Boundless Exploration
#8 - 2015-05-08 02:04:52 UTC
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Tech 2 Frig Logi would equal Tech 1 Cruiser Logi in terms of repping power but with greater mobility (as I pointed out above).

IMO... they are not needed.


edit: also... the Nestor is what happens when the DEV's can't follow the same bonuses and abilities they used with smaller ships on a larger ship of the same line... because the result would be grossly overpowered... but they can't figure out what else to do with it.


They are almost needed to take advantage of the stupid frigate holes littering wormhole space these days. at the moment it's a case of 'oh look a frigate hole with X fleet through it... never mind can't engage because no logistics can get through'

outside of that i tend to agree we don't need more smaller ships introducing T2 Logi frigates is pretty much the last nail in the coffin for larger hull ships.


This.

T1 Frigate logi is very squishy. We've played around with various ideas, but when you're splurging through a frig hole into NullSec engaging enemies with no such limitations, it's a fight you often can't take. T2 Frigate logi, or, as I would dearly love to see, some sort of Frigate sized logi bonus on T3 destroyers, such engagements suddenly become possible.

I don't think anyone is seriously calling for medium sized reps on frigate sized ships, just some decent survivability would be nice.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-05-08 02:49:10 UTC
Does this game really need more t2 frigates?
Valkin Mordirc
#10 - 2015-05-08 03:39:50 UTC
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Tech 2 Frig Logi would equal Tech 1 Cruiser Logi in terms of repping power but with greater mobility (as I pointed out above).

IMO... they are not needed.


edit: also... the Nestor is what happens when the DEV's can't follow the same bonuses and abilities they used with smaller ships on a larger ship of the same line... because the result would be grossly overpowered... but they can't figure out what else to do with it.


They are almost needed to take advantage of the stupid frigate holes littering wormhole space these days. at the moment it's a case of 'oh look a frigate hole with X fleet through it... never mind can't engage because no logistics can get through'

outside of that i tend to agree we don't need more smaller ships introducing T2 Logi frigates is pretty much the last nail in the coffin for larger hull ships.



I can see your point with that. But that almost seem like problem with the wormhole because that just one small thing needing a fix, and if you were to release T2 Logical Frigates for that problem, it would effect all of EVE not just frigate sized w-space.
#DeleteTheWeak
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#11 - 2015-05-08 03:52:43 UTC
Logis need nerfs, they are almost as bad as recons/eafs and t1 ewar frigates/cruiser for this game.
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
#12 - 2015-05-08 05:25:08 UTC
How about putting the old "non-rep" Buff bonus on the T2 frigates? So it would rep like, lets say a T1 Logi Cruiser, but would also have bonuses an remote Tracking Computer, Remote Sensor Booster and the like.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#13 - 2015-05-08 07:20:29 UTC
Cycule wrote:
The Navitas, the Inquisitor, the Burst, the Bantam all originally small mining frigates changed into logistics ships with good bonus for remote armor repairing and remote shield repairing.

Just for clarity; The Inquisitor was not a mining frigate, it was the second of the tier 3 combat frigates for the Amarr line and importantly the Amarr missile frig. The Tormentor was the mining frigate and instead of becoming the frig logistics became a solid fighting ship...

That causes a bit of a problem. T2 Logi frigates would mean that the Inquisitor would invent to the Purifier Stealth Bomber and the T2 Logistics and the Tormentor would be the only (non-faction) frigate without a T2 variation.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-05-08 11:45:56 UTC
T1 Frigates and Destroyers are squishy anyways, T1 Frigate Logi is more than enough to rep them until alpha becomes a serious problem.

T2 Frigates and T1 Cruisers can effectively be repped by T1 Cruiser Logi, you just have some fleet mobility issues while you wait for the Logi to catch up in warps.

T2 Cruisers can effectively rep anything subcap.


I really don't see the need for further logi hulls. Maybe tune up a bit the range and/or resists on T1 frigate logi, but it's not essential.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-05-08 16:16:36 UTC
Is there realy an area where one would need T2 Logistics?

In Small Scale Frigsized PvP a T1 Logistic Frigate should be more than enough to repair any damage, in Larg scale Frig sized PvP a T2 Logistic Frigate would not be able to do its job because of her fleetmates getting instapopped due to low HP.

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d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2015-05-09 01:10:17 UTC
First Change:
Remote logistic modules should provide less shield/armor/cap/hull making them inneficient (instead of creating extra hp/cap out of magic pixie dust).

With that change, no more bullshit invincible logistic fleets.

Second Change:
Refine logistic ships, especially t2 logistics.

Look at the stats... broken game mechanic.

Been around since the beginning.

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-05-12 02:17:45 UTC
d0cTeR9 wrote:
First Change:
Remote logistic modules should provide less shield/armor/cap/hull making them inneficient (instead of creating extra hp/cap out of magic pixie dust).

With that change, no more bullshit invincible logistic fleets.

Second Change:
Refine logistic ships, especially t2 logistics.

Look at the stats... broken game mechanic.

Creating HP out of "nothing" isn't resolved by nerfing the amount of it created. That claim doesn't even make sense. Further the solution to that nerf is the same as always, larger fleets with more reps for the same effect.

Your second change isn't even worthy of being called a complete idea.
Cycule
Resilience.
Initiative Mercenaries
#18 - 2015-05-12 19:38:23 UTC
Logis the way they are I would agree that they are well balanced. But deos anyone think since there is a nestor, should we get a Shield version since the battleship logi is already made?

Thoughts?
Maxi Dap
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-05-17 18:53:57 UTC
I don't know about pvp but for pve the T1 frigs are doing great. Getting a T2 version would be nice, I could use them in c4 anoms.
Klaus Tylar
Tylar United Freight
#20 - 2015-05-17 21:06:07 UTC
Damien White wrote:
Is there realy an area where one would need T2 Logistics?


Please see the earlier posts that mentioned frigate-sized wormholes. There are some places that cruiser-hulled logi cannot go, and that hampers fleet activities.
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