These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Logistics ships should show up on killmails.

First post
Author
Comboduck
Mortis Angelus
The morgue.
#61 - 2011-12-06 06:03:10 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Yes, they should.


I realize that giving promises and stuff in a forum thread isn't something that's going to happen, so instead I will ask you - Is this something that could be done like within the current game mechanics (so that you don't have to spend a lot of time reworking it), and thus realistically MIGHT show up sometime in the future?
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#62 - 2011-12-06 06:19:21 UTC
Hwong Jian wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So when you get blown up you want everyone in space to know who your squad, wing and fleet commanders were? In the middle of a fight you want people to be able to know who to shoot so that your squad stops getting bonuses?



Quoting because pro-pvp'ers stop in the middle of a firefight to check lossmails. Nothing says "fighting a difficult battle" like stopping to scour killboards for real-time pvp information.

In other news, water is wet! And, idiots don't understand sarcasm! I bet you guys didn't know that.

If you can gain an advantage by doing something people will do it. If you can have the person who just got blown up check his own loss mail to see who the person who killed him was getting bonuses from nobody who is currently involved in fighting has to stop what they are doing.

Although if you're really lazy, aren't particularly interested in winning and have no ability to multitask I can see why looking at a single line of text on killmail on your second monitor might be too much work for you to handle.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#63 - 2011-12-06 07:09:37 UTC
Soma Khan wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So there will be a new breed of KM-hores with rep modules instead of weapons getting in on the kill without getting a GCC in high sec.

They'll call it "ninja killmailing".



you mean as opposed to km whores with a neut logi alt

wouldn't you say that needs fixing though? or would you rather just qq about it?




Not sure really. I can see it going both ways, as indicated by reading the other posts.

On the one hand, you need not be the "lead singer" to get in on the kill.

On the other hand, all those "leet" PVPers sticking their epeens all over the place with their killmails will have their neutral RR help listed, and not look so leet.

I could go either way.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Comboduck
Mortis Angelus
The morgue.
#64 - 2011-12-06 07:15:48 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Hwong Jian wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So when you get blown up you want everyone in space to know who your squad, wing and fleet commanders were? In the middle of a fight you want people to be able to know who to shoot so that your squad stops getting bonuses?



Quoting because pro-pvp'ers stop in the middle of a firefight to check lossmails. Nothing says "fighting a difficult battle" like stopping to scour killboards for real-time pvp information.

In other news, water is wet! And, idiots don't understand sarcasm! I bet you guys didn't know that.

If you can gain an advantage by doing something people will do it. If you can have the person who just got blown up check his own loss mail to see who the person who killed him was getting bonuses from nobody who is currently involved in fighting has to stop what they are doing.

Although if you're really lazy, aren't particularly interested in winning and have no ability to multitask I can see why looking at a single line of text on killmail on your second monitor might be too much work for you to handle.


Actually both of you have valid points. Possible solution - Strategic information could show up at a set time after the loss.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#65 - 2011-12-06 07:16:43 UTC
XIRUSPHERE wrote:
Comboduck wrote:
XIRUSPHERE wrote:
Sure thing, just as soon as they fix the problem of you guys not inheriting aggression session penalties and being able to dock and jump through gates while assisting people rendering logi nearly invincible on gate and station.


COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC YOU NEED TO FOCUS


It's on topic, you can have lazy access to killmails if they fix the inherent problems with them. In order to get on a killmail currently they need to perform an act of aggression which is completely fair, it's also really easy to put a small arty or use a flight of light drones to get on it my friends do this all the time.

If you want kills for reps they should fix the ships and give inherited aggression for reps on ships shooting other ships as well. Fair is fair.


You should try flying logistics sometime. It's anything but lazy when you're trying to save billions in ship hulls and fittings from getting popped. Logistics wins battles. Flying logi is one of the most intense and personally rewarding ships to fly in eve yet there is no way for them to share the glory on battle reports. This needs to be addressed.

Allot of corps judge activity on kill mails and logis have to compromise there ability to rep to get on kill mails. Even using combat drones is a compromise when they could be using repping drones.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#66 - 2011-12-06 14:43:29 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Hwong Jian wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So when you get blown up you want everyone in space to know who your squad, wing and fleet commanders were? In the middle of a fight you want people to be able to know who to shoot so that your squad stops getting bonuses?



Quoting because pro-pvp'ers stop in the middle of a firefight to check lossmails. Nothing says "fighting a difficult battle" like stopping to scour killboards for real-time pvp information.

In other news, water is wet! And, idiots don't understand sarcasm! I bet you guys didn't know that.

If you can gain an advantage by doing something people will do it. If you can have the person who just got blown up check his own loss mail to see who the person who killed him was getting bonuses from nobody who is currently involved in fighting has to stop what they are doing.

Although if you're really lazy, aren't particularly interested in winning and have no ability to multitask I can see why looking at a single line of text on killmail on your second monitor might be too much work for you to handle.



If its a huge fleet fight then maybe they would do this. But so what? Both sides will be able to determine this. Maybe people won't give bonuses and have the whole fleet join in on killing a stray rifter so they don't give this intel away. If the ship is not giving bonuses for the kill it won't show up.

Moreover if your link ships are on grid then they may show up firing guns isntead of giving links. If your booster ships are off grid they will show up as giving boosts but the other side will still need to track them down. If they have half a brain they will be aligned with an ab ready to warp and practically uncatchable. (which is another problem)

None of this seems to be problematic in the least.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Barakkus
#67 - 2011-12-06 15:16:27 UTC
Hwong Jian wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So when you get blown up you want everyone in space to know who your squad, wing and fleet commanders were? In the middle of a fight you want people to be able to know who to shoot so that your squad stops getting bonuses?



Quoting because pro-pvp'ers stop in the middle of a firefight to check lossmails. Nothing says "fighting a difficult battle" like stopping to scour killboards for real-time pvp information.

In other news, water is wet! And, idiots don't understand sarcasm! I bet you guys didn't know that.


No, most people check killboards BEFORE engaging if they're smart. They will scout people in local and neighboring systems to find out where the target's backup is sitting.

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc

Xtover
Cold Moon Destruction.
#68 - 2011-12-06 15:17:28 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Yes, they should.

eye wub joo
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#69 - 2011-12-06 15:27:14 UTC
Barakkus wrote:
Hwong Jian wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So when you get blown up you want everyone in space to know who your squad, wing and fleet commanders were? In the middle of a fight you want people to be able to know who to shoot so that your squad stops getting bonuses?



Quoting because pro-pvp'ers stop in the middle of a firefight to check lossmails. Nothing says "fighting a difficult battle" like stopping to scour killboards for real-time pvp information.

In other news, water is wet! And, idiots don't understand sarcasm! I bet you guys didn't know that.


No, most people check killboards BEFORE engaging if they're smart. They will scout people in local and neighboring systems to find out where the target's backup is sitting.


Roll

Risk adverse in my eve?

Stop the hand wringing and just have some fun. It's a game.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#70 - 2011-12-06 15:28:36 UTC
Comboduck wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Yes, they should.


I realize that giving promises and stuff in a forum thread isn't something that's going to happen, so instead I will ask you - Is this something that could be done like within the current game mechanics (so that you don't have to spend a lot of time reworking it), and thus realistically MIGHT show up sometime in the future?


It would require some fairly non-trivial re-engineering work that we will need to do anyway at some point in the non-distant future for other reasons.
Barakkus
#71 - 2011-12-06 15:30:05 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Barakkus wrote:
Hwong Jian wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So when you get blown up you want everyone in space to know who your squad, wing and fleet commanders were? In the middle of a fight you want people to be able to know who to shoot so that your squad stops getting bonuses?



Quoting because pro-pvp'ers stop in the middle of a firefight to check lossmails. Nothing says "fighting a difficult battle" like stopping to scour killboards for real-time pvp information.

In other news, water is wet! And, idiots don't understand sarcasm! I bet you guys didn't know that.


No, most people check killboards BEFORE engaging if they're smart. They will scout people in local and neighboring systems to find out where the target's backup is sitting.


Roll

Risk adverse in my eve?

Stop the hand wringing and just have some fun. It's a game.


Who said anything about not engaging? It's called knowing what you're up against and planning accordingly.

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc

Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#72 - 2011-12-06 15:33:38 UTC
Anyone who uses a module which in some form assists in the battle should appear on the killmail.

Not just the ones shooting, but also the ones repping AND the ones hiding somewhere running ganlinks to boost from far away.


Also agression timer should transfer to neutral logistics because the activly participate in assisting a hostile act.
If I sit next to someone shooting and all I do is pass him ammo then I am not an innocent participant, same when I someone is shooting someone else and I remote rep one of them I am no longer uninvolved in an act of agression and as such should suffer the agression timer for docking and jumping aswel.

And yes, I fly logistics. Amongst others I love logistics and scouting. And I accept the risks it should bring with it. I refrain from using a logistics ship as a neutral repair guy simply because it's a broken game mechanic which CCP just can't seem to fix, but as the EULA says, knowingly abusing a bug or oversight is considered exploiting and as such I refrain from using that exploit.

Even if CCP states it isn't an exploit the fact remains that activly assisting in a battle should have shared agression timer and since it doesn't have it it is an exploit in my point of vieuw.
One very happily used exploit and because it's so widely used and ingame for a long time CCP can't act on it anymore as an exploit. So now they are gradually changing the mechanics.

And if you bring a few pvp fit logi's there is not much need to use neut logi's because your opponents have to decide what first. The logi's spidertanking eachother and in the meanwhile get shot by their Dps group or on to the Dps group which get's a load of reps.
Goumeka Ghalvia
The Fuel Pump Brotherhood
#73 - 2011-12-06 15:40:22 UTC
Fully support the OP.
All assitance should show up on the kill/lossmails. It would both make killboards more "honest" and give more people incentive to fly logistics.
No more whoring with 1 gun or combat drones.
Barakkus
#74 - 2011-12-06 15:41:27 UTC
Goumeka Ghalvia wrote:
Fully support the OP.
All assitance should show up on the kill/lossmails. It would both make killboards more "honest" and give more people incentive to fly logistics.
No more whoring with 1 gun or combat drones.


:(
But it's funny :P

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#75 - 2011-12-06 15:44:23 UTC
Barakkus wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Barakkus wrote:
Hwong Jian wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So when you get blown up you want everyone in space to know who your squad, wing and fleet commanders were? In the middle of a fight you want people to be able to know who to shoot so that your squad stops getting bonuses?



Quoting because pro-pvp'ers stop in the middle of a firefight to check lossmails. Nothing says "fighting a difficult battle" like stopping to scour killboards for real-time pvp information.

In other news, water is wet! And, idiots don't understand sarcasm! I bet you guys didn't know that.


No, most people check killboards BEFORE engaging if they're smart. They will scout people in local and neighboring systems to find out where the target's backup is sitting.


Roll

Risk adverse in my eve?

Stop the hand wringing and just have some fun. It's a game.


Who said anything about not engaging? It's called knowing what you're up against and planning accordingly.


By the time you check their killboards and then scout the surrounding area you may find some of your pvp opportunities are gone.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#76 - 2011-12-06 15:44:30 UTC
Goumeka Ghalvia wrote:
Fully support the OP.
All assitance should show up on the kill/lossmails. It would both make killboards more "honest" and give more people incentive to fly logistics.
No more whoring with 1 gun or combat drones.


This TBH, THIS !

Flying logistics is boring, tedious and stressful in large engagements, on top of that you're considered by the actual KM mechanics has not being there, this is completely silly !!

Logistics pilots also need something to fight for and give them a good reason to be there other than "I'm a good guy who wants my team to win" BS.
Give points accordingly to repair amount on the ships in that fracking KM/LM
Barakkus
#77 - 2011-12-06 15:56:15 UTC
Cearain wrote:

By the time you check their killboards and then scout the surrounding area you may find some of your pvp opportunities are gone.


Not really.

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc

Valator Uel
Perkone
Caldari State
#78 - 2011-12-06 16:42:30 UTC
I can think of two ways to go about doing this.

1) If someone dies that has been remote repaired the pilot repairing appears on KM with damage repaired shown as a negative number. Only damage repaired shows up, not the virtual HP sent by each cycle of the remote rep module if the target ship is undamaged. Only problem with this method is that someone in the fleet has to die for the logi pilot to appear on the KM. Easy solution but not perfect.

Quote:
Name: Valator Uel
Security: 3.5
Corp: Rionnag Alba
Alliance: Northern Coalition.
Faction: None
Ship: Guardian
Weapon: Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Damage Done: -15636



2) When someone kills another ship but his ship was repaired then the logistics pilot appears as a benefactor to that pilot. While it shows no numbers it does show participation in the battle report by those who do no damage but buff other ships. This can actually be applied to all kinds of friendly e-war.

Quote:
Name: Valator Uel
Security: 3.5
Corp: Rionnag Alba
Alliance: Northern Coalition.
Faction: None
Ship: Sabre
Weapon: 150mm Light AutoCannon II
Damage Done: 1892
Benefactor1: Barakkus
Benefactor1Ship: Scimitar
... ect


Or a combination of both.
hundurinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#79 - 2011-12-06 16:56:55 UTC
broken empire mechanics is a seperate issue i dont really understand why it was brought up.


way i see it logistics are part of the fleet and deserve to be in battle reports, it would also make it slightly less thankless to fly them.

also i might actually use my t2 rr drones
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#80 - 2011-12-06 17:04:42 UTC
It's been a while since I last PvP'ed, but I thought logis had always showed up in killmails... When did this change?

And why would CCP have removed the killmails for logistics, that makes no sense at all.

Nyan