EVE General Discussion

But yeah, I think that the OP's mention that "we need numbers from CCP" isn't really true, not to get a general feel for this anyways. There are so many spreadsheet pros on the forums; I'm sure if one of them took up the task they could figure out ballpark numbers for mineral cost per ship HP and all that other stuff pretty dang quickly. Go post in market discussions and see if those guys are feeling up to the task. Mineral faucet/sink talk shouldn't be moved out of their by mods, I wouldn't think.

Mr Epeen ... that is already gradually being addressed with burner missions.

Drifters' AI is doing their part as well.


I don't mind better PvE, as long as it is indeed better ...
... and not what many PvE players won't from games like WoW.

Play the game how you want. Just don't complain that the game CCP is developing and selling, in this case a competitive PvP game, is not what you want it to be. Eve is what CCP wants it to be and if that is not your cup of tea, you should take your business elsewhere.

If you don't like it, do something else. Sticking with a game you don't like hoping that you can somehow change the developer's direction seems like a recipe for personal disappointment.


Eve is a PvP sandbox, not a space-themed version of Minecraft. Allowing players to design content complete with rewards is just asking for it to be exploited. If you don't have rewards no one will do it. This is a competitive game with a limited number of resources so you cannot allow players to dictate how many rewards they will get.

Perhaps there is room for some competitive, social PvE somewhere where players do influence the universe - like FW but with PvE objectives rather than ship PvP. This would be hard to balance, but ultimately you would still be competing against other players albeit not directly. I could see something like that being worked on, but it would still be a social and competitive mechanism where there would be winners and losers. If you want to actually build a universe or PvE encounters, you should try another game, one that's essential core concept is not "full time PvP in a sandbox environment" as the New Pilot's FAQ tells us.

Instead of continually whining that Eve isn't the game that you want her to be yet coming back each and every month for more, find some self-respect and break-up with her. Eve isn't going to change for you - she is who she is - and clearly she isn't making you happy.

If wasn't for CCP, we wouldn't know that for each HP that hits a player, 62 HP hit some NPC. So (probably) PvErs spend 62 times more minerals in ammo than PvPrs.

Now, is a ship worth 62 times more minerals than the ammo required to blow it? How about resistances and HP? And non-spending ammo?

It's complicated, but probably I was wrong.

Oh btw did anyone see how we scratched the 40k yesterday?

Game must be in a horrible state!

WHAT!!!!!!!!

You must have logged all your alts then

For sure.

I just looked at baseline HP (no consideration of resists) of an oracle compared to the baseline trit cost to produce, and the baseline damage of a thermal cruise missile and the baseline trit to produce. It's a ridiculously crude attempt to figure this out, but that said, after looking at that I'd be very surprised if PVE ammo costs were more than 1/2 of the minerals destroyed of PVP ship losses (not even including PVP ammo costs).

1/3 of minerals in the game being destroyed by PVE ammo use would be very significant, though. Tweaking (or maybe making huge changes instead of "tweaking"!) the mineral production requirements for ammo, drone, module charges, etc., could definitely have huge impacts on the economy, even if this sink isn't nearly as large as PVP ship mineral losses.

Whether a missioner loots wrecks and reprocesses the loot isn't relevant to whether tweaking ammo production costs would have a big effect on the economy.

Without CCP input on that there is no evidence to support that, but plenty of evidence to suggest that it's not even close.

AFKTars using drones lose next to nothing but inflict a lot of damage to red crosses.

There is very little mineral consumption from ratting, missioning, anom and combat site running with drones.

I agree with your main point then. Players need to engage with the sandbox beyond just continually running L4 missions. However just adding another tier of solo PvE content isn't going to do that - it will just add another rung on the ladder to nowhere and prolong that player from quitting out of boredom for a few more weeks. Different, cooperative/competative PvE which make players interact with each other might help them get engaged. I hope CCP gets around to working on that soon.

PvE was never designed so you can "play for free" by PLEXing. Honestly, players that do this offer little to the game in terms of content and are not who CCP is designing their game for. If they want to run on that treadmill until they get bored and quit they of course can do that, but that isn't what the developers intend the major gameplay of Eve to be about. Play the game how you want, but I wouldn't hold out much hope CCP to change much to solve this if this is a problem for you. Any changes to PvE will be intended to make the game more player-driven and competitive (like maybe using PvP-fits), not to make solo grinders be able to earn a PLEX faster.

These Drifters promise to be some interesting new PvE content. I hope they and their new AI shake things up and provide a little risk and uncertainty to a game that has had too much of that drained from it in recent years as well as give PvE players something new to do.

I see we have a standard Ishtanchuk Fazmarai post here.

The problem with such posts is that, at the end of the day, it's just a weak attempt at "metagaming". ie It's trying to convince the powers that be (CCP) to change course in how they do things, and doing so by making a false economic argument ("most of your players are PVE types like me, so if you want to stay in business, you need to cater to me or we'll walk away from this game when something better comes along, and btw ignore that last 12 years of this game's history, that means nothing!!!")

We all know what the OP is saying is BS right? The reason it's BS is the one thing the OP always misses when he posts: people like me exists. PVE players who LIKE the PVP focus of the game. People who gain value from this experience not jsut via shooting/scanning npcs, but by doing so while outplaying and outsmarting the knuckle dragging PVP types that want to kill you.

Isk in a wallet is sweet. isk in a wallet coupled with the curses and tears in local of a gank type who failed to stop you from putting that isk in the wallet is sweet and priceless. What the Ishtanchuk Fazmarai types will never understand is that not only can you not truly nerf the pvp types (the last 12 years of EVE should have proved that), but that trying to do so does nothing but nerf US, the bold EVE PVE guys who don't need CCP's hand holding to enjoy this game.


TL;DR, screw off with this noise OP, speak for yourself because you do not speak for me.