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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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clickfest removal
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Pidgeon Saissore
Tyrant's
#1 - 2015-05-02 06:35:47 UTC
Lots of things require more clicking then they need to. A couple examples here and the solution to each. There might be a whole lot of hotkeys by the time this is done but that only effects the people who use them all. The only thing this can result in is faster player response to everything and should not effect the server load at all.



Warp at range: hotkey each range and click on target
Warp to favorite spot: hotkey and designate one per system
Warp to your fleet position number in anomaly list / belt list

Launch drones: hotkey by group launching a different group will recall active one
drone guard/assist: hotkey click on fleet member
reconnect drones
Launch/scoop deployable structure: single hotkey click in inventory launches in space or overview scoops
loot wreck: hotkey scoops all in reach

follow broadcast: hotkey to target or set active target to what someone has broadcasted
follow tag: uses same key as fleet leader used to mark the tag

reload ammo type: hotkey ranked by range modifier

Switch overview tab

fire everything key
activate all self modules key



Step through your market orders in region: brings up the modify order and market details of each one of your orders in range.
Match your order to clicked order
Configure reactor array: putting the reaction sets the input and output silos / harvesters automatically if mixed silos / coupling arrays determine by volume per hour
Reset planetary extractors: one button stops and installs all extractor programs without changing head position possibly available account wide in login screen


Sort assets by:
total hangar value
total stack value




all modules should not need to be inactive to set the next target for them. Next target can be set to next cycle or on destruction or separate keys for the two modes.
Targeting a gate / wormhole starts targeting anything that comes through it immediately on its decloak

targets should be set in the order in which they are selected instead of the order that lock completes.
Cade Windstalker
#2 - 2015-05-02 07:46:37 UTC
Some of these are really really close or flat over the line into macro/bot/'one button win' territory. I mean really, a button to "activate all self modules" or "fire everything"? (ever heard of grouping weapons?)

Plus even low-balling the number of keys needed for this I think you're still onto a second keyboard's worth of keys by the end of this post and as things are now there are still more hotkeys than you can reasonably assign and use.

Some of these are decent ideas but a lot of them are just removing thought or required knowledge from the game or have no significant use outside of saving one click somewhere *or* making it much easier to bot, for example:


  • reconnect drones - This already exists.
  • Warp to favorite spot: hotkey and designate one per system - makes it much much easier to start your bot off at the same point every time. Replaces one right click and one left click in decently organized bookmark folder.
  • Launch drones: hotkey by group launching a different group will recall active one - Impractical, even sub-caps can easily have 4-5 drone groups on just one ship. Carriers can have upwards of 20-30, and the current hotkey system doesn't support dynamic numbers of keys. You would need to bind keys to "drone group 1" and then assign which group is "drone group 1" and probably re-bind them every time you changed ships. Again, saves one right click and one left click, or one click+drag.
  • loot wreck: hotkey scoops all in reach - Makes it way too easy to loot all nearby wrecks effortlessly, there are already things like the MTU that do something similar for you but with risk involved. Extremely useful for a botter, removes reflexes when trying to scoop loot and run after going flashy.
  • follow broadcast: hotkey to target or set active target to what someone has broadcasted - Removes the last vestige of skill required to follow called targets in a large fleet with good broadcast management while simultaneously making it likely you'll target and shoot someone asking for reps. Funny, but not particularly useful. Replaces one right and one left click at most.
  • follow tag: uses same key as fleet leader used to mark the tag - As near as I can tell this is "one button let the FC control my ship for me". Seems like a poor attempt to sneak Multi-input broadcasting back into the game by just hammering swap window and pressing a single key repeatedly.
  • reload ammo type: hotkey ranked by range modifier - Removes skill from the game in the form of ammo knowledge. Doesn't work equally for all guns, since not all guns have the same type of range graduation, doesn't take into account different damage types on Projectiles and Missiles.
  • fire everything key - You mean like grouped weapons? >.>
  • activate all self modules key - We already have module hotkeys, gods forbid you be required to manually activate all of your modules.
  • Step through your market orders in region: brings up the modify order and market details of each one of your orders in range. - Seems impractical for anyone with a large number of orders since most won't need modification or checking, seems great for someone trying to run a market bot.
  • Match your order to clicked order - Doesn't actually let you under-cut someone, so again limited utility for an actual trader, but is great for market bots.
  • Configure reactor array: putting the reaction sets the input and output silos / harvesters automatically if mixed silos / coupling arrays determine by volume per hour - So... make PI completely brain dead by letting you auto-configure your setup? No.
  • Reset planetary extractors: one button stops and installs all extractor programs without changing head position possibly available account wide in login screen - Those range skills exist for a reason. Log in and actually do your own PI.
  • all modules should not need to be inactive to set the next target for them. Next target can be set to next cycle or on destruction or separate keys for the two modes. - This is a server-side issue and literally isn't possible at present AFAIK.
  • Targeting a gate / wormhole starts targeting anything that comes through it immediately on its decloak - Reflexes! Use them!
  • targets should be set in the order in which they are selected instead of the order that lock completes. - Doesn't work because the lock on a target may not complete either due to other locks filling up your target queue first or targets being removed from the grid (destroyed, left, ect) and besides target placement/order in the target list is a simple stack unless you manually rearrange it. Adding something like this would require a massive rewrite of that part of the UI and while I'm not strictly against that since I think it could use some extra functionality I don't think this is the way to go.


In summary, most of your suggestions here only replace two clicks or in some cases even just one, and about 1/3rd of them are either border line botting themselves or only really seem useful for enabling botting (or extreme laziness)
Leto Aramaus
Frog Team Four
Ribbit.
#3 - 2015-05-02 13:28:34 UTC
There are many hotkeys needed...

But most of these are not the ones I would ask for.

This is what I think we need in the way of hotkeys.

The UI update we deserve
Pidgeon Saissore
Tyrant's
#4 - 2015-05-03 02:31:20 UTC
Yes bots and macros exist but no they wouldn't take advantage of allowing this in the UI because they already do everything I suggest and then some. Going through menus is literally the easiest thing to code in a bot which makes all comments about making any UI more bottable irrelevant.

I ask for these things because gameplay is limited by the speed of the dropdown menus themselves. I do not want to look at and most definitely don't want to wait for a window lo load when I already know exactly what I want to do. And yes that 1/10 second it takes for that second click in the menu matters. With that in mind everything in a dropdown menu should have the option of being a hotkey.

Saving one click never looks like much but it is when you want to do it 5 or 6 times a second.

As for my suggestions that are things other then turning dropdown menus into hotkeys you missed a few of the finer points that I intended but didn't find the words to say

configuring a reactor was meant for moon reactors as the current UI has a whole mess of ways to make you think its working when it is not.

Targeting gates is meant for latency as it is simply not possible for you to see an interceptor before the server has it as being in warp. Take a look at normal latency numbers and the align time of frigates and you will see why they are impossible to catch.

I will admit that the follow broadcast Idea is something that has been banned in other forms but lots of other ideas here that could get some love.
Pew Terror
All of it
#5 - 2015-05-03 04:13:26 UTC
Opening a community UI API would fix a lot.

Would also be a blast to be able to make corp specific ones.
Cade Windstalker
#6 - 2015-05-03 06:16:06 UTC
Pidgeon Saissore wrote:
Yes bots and macros exist but no they wouldn't take advantage of allowing this in the UI because they already do everything I suggest and then some. Going through menus is literally the easiest thing to code in a bot which makes all comments about making any UI more bottable irrelevant.


No, it really doesn't. This is also the easiest area to detect bots and the place they are most likely to get into trouble. If they manage to hit a menu state they can't deal with they break. The stuff you're asking for would make dealing with that a lot easier.

Pidgeon Saissore wrote:
I ask for these things because gameplay is limited by the speed of the dropdown menus themselves. I do not want to look at and most definitely don't want to wait for a window lo load when I already know exactly what I want to do. And yes that 1/10 second it takes for that second click in the menu matters. With that in mind everything in a dropdown menu should have the option of being a hotkey.


Yup, that time does matter, it's one of the few areas where player reflexes can mean the difference between life and death. Personally I feel like in some cases that's worth preserving. Also no, not everything in the menu. That menu exists because there are literally too many different menu options for hotkeys to be functional, let alone practical.

Pidgeon Saissore wrote:
Saving one click never looks like much but it is when you want to do it 5 or 6 times a second.


There is literally nothing in your suggestions that can be done more than once per second except looting containers, and that's one of the areas where your reflexes matter and that should be preserved, as well as there being tools in-game that mostly negate the need for it in areas where reflexes don't matter.

Pidgeon Saissore wrote:
As for my suggestions that are things other then turning dropdown menus into hotkeys you missed a few of the finer points that I intended but didn't find the words to say

configuring a reactor was meant for moon reactors as the current UI has a whole mess of ways to make you think its working when it is not.

Targeting gates is meant for latency as it is simply not possible for you to see an interceptor before the server has it as being in warp. Take a look at normal latency numbers and the align time of frigates and you will see why they are impossible to catch.

I will admit that the follow broadcast Idea is something that has been banned in other forms but lots of other ideas here that could get some love.


The current POS reactor setup is going away with the new structures so that's a moot point.

Insta-warp interceptors are an intended mechanic. Deal with it.

No idea what you're talking about it being banned. If a topic is banned that goes for the entire Eve forums except for specific exceptions. No matter how you slice it it's botting lite or IS-Boxer lite.

Pew Terror wrote:
Opening a community UI API would fix a lot.

Would also be a blast to be able to make corp specific ones.


Never going to happen, because it's way to easy to make the UI do things that CCP has banned if you allow modification of the client like that. And no, CCP can't simply regulate everything because once you open up the client to modification you FUBAR your best methods of detecting hacked or modified clients.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#7 - 2015-05-03 08:53:41 UTC
Current shortcuts may need reworking in order to standardise player expectations and experience (F1-F8 4eva), but multi-action hotkeys is not a way forward and is little weener men territory, just like botting is.

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