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Nightmare or Paladin?
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Xious
Grumpy Auld Gits
#21 - 2011-12-05 16:45:56 UTC
Kahldor wrote:
Xious wrote:
Heyo, I'm having some issues deciding on a ship choice for some down-time ISK generation. Here's what I have and need:

1 - In terms of skill I'm marginally better sitting in a Paladin but its literally a few percentage difference between skill levels.
2 - I don't salvage at all.
3 - I have effectively max Minnie BS skills (missing only Large AC spec 5)
4 - Having a ship that can mission and do incursions would be awesome.
5 - I have no real skill in Caldari or Gall BS beyond BS IV in both. (T1 guns etc)

So, the fine community of S+M, which should I get? Money is not a major obstacle, so if you have a better suggestion than a NM or a Paladin please let me know.

Cheers!


Missions and incursions are two different PVE styles. You are better off getting dedicated ships for each one as the fits are very different and you will have to buy new rigs each time you switch. I would suggest a legion or nightmare for incursions as the paladin is a little squishy unless you shell out a lot of ISK for deadspace EANMs.

For missions I like the Paladin as it doesn't require managing cap boosters and WTFPWNs everything weak to Em/Therm. Salvaging in it is ok while you are in mission but most of the time I run 3-4 missions and come back in a noctis as it's much faster.

As for fitting:

Lows:
3 active hardener
1 corpus A-type large armor rep
3 INHS

Med:
2 Cap recharger II
2 TC II with tracking scripts

High:
4 Tach II with INMF
2 Tractor Beam
1 Salvager

Rigs;
LCC
Nanobot accelerator

Throw in some 5% hardwires and run missions with 827dps tank 951guns only DPS/6545 volley. It's not cap stable but I have never had a problem with it since stuff dies as fast as I can target it. Pulses aren't needed as you will pop frigs/cruisers and sometime BC in 1 volley and anything that does get through your drones can take care of.







Hmm, interesting, cheers. I was a big fan of Incrusions when I tried them, but getting consitent fleets was always an issue for me and spending more time waiting for people and them getting the right kit put me off a bit.

Cheers for the fit and info, seems like the Pala is the best choice even if I don't want to salvage.

For Incursions you figure the legion? Can fly a loki really well, but don't have Amarr T3 trained at all. It would take a few weeks to be viable, still the best bet? Don't think I'd be willing to fork out for a NM aswell as a Paladin.
Kahldor
Doomheim
#22 - 2011-12-05 16:59:37 UTC
The Loki works too. I have no idea how they are fit but if your hang out in "The Ditanian Fleet" (aka TDF) channel you can see how people fit them. Incursion fleets like T3s as most ships in Vanguards are frigs and T3s can apply damage easily to them.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2011-12-05 17:09:06 UTC
Since you have pro minnie skills and required bs skills for macha ... go for macha.

Nightmare will rock missions and incursions both. Paladin is somewhat weak tankwise in incursions combined with high aggro generation.

Go for mach.
Mike712
Tenth Plague of Egypt
#24 - 2011-12-05 18:19:52 UTC
Lots of ******** paladin fits, here's a proper one:

[Paladin, Lv4 Paladin]
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II (or heat sink)
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II (or afterburner)

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Don't use pulse...seriously, for all the factions where the paladin is worth using(blood, sansha, drones) tachs are much better, you get pulse DPS but at 45km, don't bother with a cap booster(the paladin has an amazingly strong capacitor) and don't bother with deadspace rep or hardeners it's just a waste of isk.

Been flying that for over a year and it's great, looks to be cheaper than everything posted so far too.

If you want to use it for incursions remove 1 heat sink and the rep, slap a plate on it and an extra hardener/EANM.


I have a nightmare too but hardly ever use it, but the extra damage and tracking is outdone(isk per hour) by the paladins ability to salvage while killing, as blood and sansha provide high value salvage, though with a shield buffer tank it's a better option for incursions for sure.

Regards, Mike712 The BattleClinic Team
Kahldor
Doomheim
#25 - 2011-12-05 18:43:45 UTC
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Paladin is somewhat weak tankwise in incursions combined with high aggro generation.


Yeah I believe it's due to using webs. Anytime I start webbing stuff I get full room aggro even if I wasn't shooting anything. And I believe CCP did a stealth nerf (or its a bug) to incursions as I find NCOs are less common after the expansion and it seems ships are taking more damage than before the expansion with the damage being split amoung more ships in fleet. It still doesn't hurt the ISK/hr just makes weaker tanked ships more likely to get popped and the logi's job a little harder.

All I can say is after going to < 20% armor a few times in my 70%+ resist paladin with all the logis overheating and using repper drones I decided to switch to Legion. I still take more damage than I used to before the expansion but the smaller sig and fast velocity helps the tank alot.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#26 - 2011-12-06 01:33:22 UTC
Something to keep in mind when making your desicion (I personally like both ships, as well as the t3's. People that yammer about how this or that ship 'sucks' in that selection usually are talking out of the wrong end. They are all great) is that the majority of Incursion runs atm are usually shield fleets.

I personally am not the happiest with this fact, as I love my amarr ships, and my Legion is more fun for me than the other t3's (personal tastes), and it may change in the future with all of the updates to ships and guns that have been happening. But there tend to be about 3 shield fleets to every armor fleet. So if you are keeping yourself restricted to your above listed ships, You may want to lean towards the Nightmare fitted out for a HQ fleet. They are pretty popular in them.


Just food for thought. ;)

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Miriiah
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2011-12-06 23:09:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Miriiah
Mike712 wrote:
Lots of ******** paladin fits, here's a proper one:

[Paladin, Lv4 Paladin]
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II (or heat sink)
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II (or afterburner)

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Don't use pulse...seriously, for all the factions where the paladin is worth using(blood, sansha, drones) tachs are much better, you get pulse DPS but at 45km, don't bother with a cap booster(the paladin has an amazingly strong capacitor) and don't bother with deadspace rep or hardeners it's just a waste of isk.

Been flying that for over a year and it's great, looks to be cheaper than everything posted so far too.

If you want to use it for incursions remove 1 heat sink and the rep, slap a plate on it and an extra hardener/EANM.


I have a nightmare too but hardly ever use it, but the extra damage and tracking is outdone(isk per hour) by the paladins ability to salvage while killing, as blood and sansha provide high value salvage, though with a shield buffer tank it's a better option for incursions for sure.


[Paladin, Supercharged Letolol]
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Gist X-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Energy Burst Aerator II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead II x5

Costs like 400m more than yours, moves between gates etc alot faster, remove hardners for 2 TE's vs drones/the score/massive attack(As they deal no damagee) 967 dps at 45km (without TE's that is)

1354 at 15km, 1512 with 5 hammerheads

If there's packs of bs's you can just mwd towards them and scorch until yiu get in conflag/IN MF range, stable with either guns + repper, or repper + mwd, guns/mwd.

Pulses don't suck on a Paladin, you just don't know how to fit/use one

Can be refit with Tachs and 2 tc's @ 992 dps, cap stable(not really needed with tachs though) or 1 tc + AB if you want that for, gurista assault or some silly stuff
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