These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

small thought about the 2 bigger mining ships
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#1 - 2015-05-01 15:03:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
There's something I would like to hear from other long-time miners, about the 2 bigger mining barge/exhumer :

Is anyone feeling that the Retriever/mackinaw should be the mining ship with long range/smaller ore hold and the Covetor/Hulk the one with bigger ore hold/average tank ? While keeping the same number of strip miners ?

It's not something I would like to see changed, just a random thought.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-05-01 20:07:51 UTC
Why?
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#3 - 2015-05-01 20:20:05 UTC
I thought about it for 3 differents reasons actually :

  • ]Ship design : the electronic needed to add some range could take the electronic for one more strip miner and power to make the strip miners able to reach a greater distance. Plus, the Covetor/Hulk being bigger than is smaller cousin, it could have space for a bigger ore hold

  • Gameplay : having to take care of 3 turrets, in highsec where there is a lot of small asteroids who deplete quickly is a (slightly) little more clicky activity than two strip miners, but it doesn't become by far not a annoying click fest, just a little more than taking care of 2 turrets every 5 minutes

    • [*] Legacy : the hulk was the king of ore mining before the mining ship rebalance, ice was for the dual turret cousin and the mercoxit for the smaller ship, for the skiff it's still correct since mercoxit is only in nullsec and having a good tank for the mean rats is a must

    In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
    manndraggora
    US Space Force
    Black Rose.
    #4 - 2015-05-02 19:36:39 UTC
    No the Retriever/mackinaw are newbie miner friendly because those piloting them do not have support or experience with larger mining operations.

    Where the Covetor/Hulk are mining ships that maximize ore yield for sacrifice of tank and ore hold. Because it takes a longer time to fly these your understanding of needing a hauler and fleet boost come into play more which is what its all about. Because in the end it cost more to build.

    Lastly I feel ccp is trying to get away from afk miners/bots and to do this you need to make verity of situations which each ship for fills.
    Kiddoomer
    The Red Sequence
    #5 - 2015-05-02 20:05:05 UTC
    manndraggora wrote:
    No the Retriever/mackinaw are newbie miner friendly because those piloting them do not have support or experience with larger mining operations.

    Where the Covetor/Hulk are mining ships that maximize ore yield for sacrifice of tank and ore hold. Because it takes a longer time to fly these your understanding of needing a hauler and fleet boost come into play more which is what its all about. Because in the end it cost more to build.

    Lastly I feel ccp is trying to get away from afk miners/bots and to do this you need to make verity of situations which each ship for fills.


    I mostly agree with you but are you sure about the newbie miner thing ? Mining barges are not the first mining ship anymore, and most of the time newbie will go for the tank and single strip miner variant. Plus since the last mining ships rebalance all the barges/exhumer take the same amount of time to train (be it tech 1 or 2).

    In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
    Amanda Chan
    Garoun Investment Bank
    Gallente Federation
    #6 - 2015-05-04 16:58:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Chan
    Kiddoomer wrote:
    There's something I would like to hear from other long-time miners, about the 2 bigger mining barge/exhumer :

    Is anyone feeling that the Retriever/mackinaw should be the mining ship with long range/smaller ore hold and the Covetor/Hulk the one with bigger ore hold/average tank ? While keeping the same number of strip miners ?

    It's not something I would like to see changed, just a random thought.


    I can't say I agree. Where would be the trade off? Why would anyone fly a Mack is a Hulk mines everything the fastest and has the largest hold? For a little bit of extra tank and range? Most people settle down nice and close to roids for fast return time on mining drone, because yes they add up to an extra strip t1 miner,give or take.

    The differences between the exhumers are pretty solid and don't need much adjusting other then......Please for the love of space pixels, give the hulk an extra 1000m3 to their ore hold. What I wouldn't give to be able to finish 2 cycles and not have all my lasers shut off.
    Kiddoomer
    The Red Sequence
    #7 - 2015-05-04 17:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
    Amanda Chan wrote:
    Kiddoomer wrote:
    There's something I would like to hear from other long-time miners, about the 2 bigger mining barge/exhumer :

    Is anyone feeling that the Retriever/mackinaw should be the mining ship with long range/smaller ore hold and the Covetor/Hulk the one with bigger ore hold/average tank ? While keeping the same number of strip miners ?

    It's not something I would like to see changed, just a random thought.


    I can't say I agree. Where would be the trade off? Why would anyone fly a Mack is a Hulk mines everything the fastest and has the largest hold? For a little bit of extra tank and range? Most people settle down nice and close to roids for fast return time on mining drone, because yes they add up to an extra strip t1 miner,give or take.

    The differences between the exhumers are pretty solid and don't need much adjusting other then......Please for the love of space pixels, give the hulk an extra 1000m3 to their ore hold. What I wouldn't give to be able to finish 2 cycles and not have all my lasers shut off.


    Maybe I wasn't clear, I don't want to see any exhumer buffed or nerfed, just a switch of hull with its bonus. More of a aesthetic thing than anything, I agree the 3 hulls are fine like they are (or maybe 1-2% more cpu for the mackinaw).

    In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
    Amanda Chan
    Garoun Investment Bank
    Gallente Federation
    #8 - 2015-05-04 17:20:07 UTC
    Kiddoomer wrote:

    Maybe I wasn't clear, I don't want to see any exhumer buffed or nerfed, just a switch of hull with its bonus. More of a aesthetic thing than anything, I agree the 3 hulls are fine like they are (or maybe 1-2% more cpu for the mackinaw).


    By partially switching hull bonuses though, you are in fact nerfing/buffing them.

    Here's how they stand.
    Hulk - Best yield, best range, worst tank and hold - best fleet miner
    Mackinaw - Best hold, base range, medium tank and yield. - best solo miner(effort/isk)
    Skiff - Best tank, base range, medium hold and worst yield....-best solo miner(tank/isk)...also best dps lol battleskiff

    Hulk - Best Yield, base range, best hold and worst tank.
    Mackinaw - Best Range, medium tank, medium yield and worst hold.
    Skiff - Best tank, base range, medium hold and worst yield. Still got the best dps

    The Hulk would be an incredible solo miner and fleet miner.
    Skiff - Still used for those who just want to mine with a battleship level tank or battleskiffs /rawr.
    What reason would there be to use a Mackinaw?

    Range? As I said, people sidle up to roids anyways to get maximum return on mining drones unless they're fleet mining and even then some do.
    Well that's the only best category it's got...unless...you like the gear grinding look?
    Kiddoomer
    The Red Sequence
    #9 - 2015-05-04 17:30:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
    So the hulk should see his yield reduced to compensate for the change, but yes you're right.
    My original idea was focused on the idea that having to care about 3 lasers is just enough engaging to prevent the solo miner to be too much bored while mining if not doing anything besides that.
    Because even while stopping the cycle to prevent overmining and using regularly the survey scanner, plus taking care of the mining drones is still no enough for me :s

    In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
    Amanda Chan
    Garoun Investment Bank
    Gallente Federation
    #10 - 2015-05-04 17:43:08 UTC
    Kiddoomer wrote:
    So the hulk should see his yield reduced to compensate for the change, but yes you're right.
    My original idea was focused on the idea that having to care about 3 lasers is just enough engaging to prevent the solo miner to be too much bored while mining if not doing anything besides that.


    Technically having 3 lasers mean paying attention is required even less. Allow me to elaborate. Both the Skiff and Mackinaw have substantial bonuses to make up for the fact that they have less lasers.

    Skiff - 150% yield to 1 laser, means it takes out huge chunks every cycle. Depending on the amount left in the rock, can leave a sizeable chunk of wasted time over-mining an asteroid.

    Mackinaw - 25% yield to 2 lasers, means it takes out a smaller chunk every cycle. Same deal as before except 1/2 the penalty.

    Hulk - 3 lasers and no yield bonus.

    Above is the order of who is penalized the most for not paying attention.

    As you can see if a Skiff pilot doesn't pay attention, he could be spending a large portion of time with his SINGLE laser cycling on a asteroid that has nothing left to offer him.

    The Mackinaw has a smaller yield per laser so the potential wasted cycle time is lower and hits spreads the love with 2 asteroids for "potentially" 1/2 the chance of that happening.

    The hulk has the smallest yield per laser but 3 plus cycle bonus. The least potential wasted cycle time and a 1/3 of a chance that one of his lasers is overcycling.

    All of this can be mitigated by active surveying but miners are a lazy lot.

    There is a lot you should be doing while mining, like checking locals for neutrals/unknowns, checking up on these people to see if they are a potential threat or not all the while hitting d-scan to see what they might be in, etc.
    Kiddoomer
    The Red Sequence
    #11 - 2015-05-04 17:59:36 UTC
    Very well explained thanks, that's true I forgot about the yield being divised by the number of turrets.

    And about awareness, I escaped one ganking attempt and maybe two more these last daysWhat? suspicious alt with "mining permit" in their bio is enough for me when in local to start aligning to station instead of a celestial around the belt.

    But a afk ice miners got his 2 hulks rekt, free t2 salvage for me Roll

    Even without my idea, I'm sure something could be done to really make miners no want to be afk asides of ganking, I know mining is not supposed to be thrilling, but at least a thing supposed to be done 80% in front of the EVE client screen.

    In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
    Amanda Chan
    Garoun Investment Bank
    Gallente Federation
    #12 - 2015-05-04 18:10:09 UTC
    Kiddoomer wrote:
    Very well explained thanks, that's true I forgot about the yield being divised by the number of turrets.

    And about awareness, I escaped one ganking attempt and maybe two more these last daysWhat? suspicious alt with "mining permit" in their bio is enough for me when in local to start aligning to station instead of a celestial around the belt.

    But a afk ice miners got his 2 hulks rekt, free t2 salvage for me Roll

    Even without my idea, I'm sure something could be done to really make miners no want to be afk asides of ganking, I know mining is not supposed to be thrilling, but at least a thing supposed to be done 80% in front of the EVE client screen.


    Yes and no. On one hand some people have been advocating the idea of a mini-game similar to the ones used for data/relic analyzers. That would make mining much more interesting and engaging, although would also distract from your situational awareness of your surroundings and possible ganks.

    On the other hand, people who run their personal mining fleets would probably rage at the idea of having to play N number of mini games where N is the number of miners they have.

    We'll see what, if anything, CCP does regarding mining. You can always toss your thoughts into https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=270
    Kiddoomer
    The Red Sequence
    #13 - 2015-05-05 08:06:57 UTC
    It's been some months ago since I go everyday on the features and suggestions forums, I even proposed 2-3 things myself ( a mining ship drone, make mining drones able to work with the "engage target" shortcut, and the third one in my signature).

    But two very interesting threads, about multiple mining methods and the second about comet mining, are very old for one (2 years !) and more than 10 pages long thread, with the second even being directly asked to the dev by the OP at the last fanfest. But still not a thing in sight. So meh, I dunno if ccp want to change anything about for the years being, surely too much work needed for new structures and sov for now, but apparently skin are more important than this.

    In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”