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Any skin on any ship - bug on SiSi - yes we could have skins on ships

First post First post First post
Author
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#221 - 2015-05-04 04:10:40 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Masao Kurata wrote:
so a quafe skin for instance lets you fly a quafe tristan, catalyst, vexor, dominix, megathron, thanatos, nyx and obelisk. Convert injected licenses which are now duplicates back into items on the redemption queue.

Did you just buy the quafe Tristan by any chance..?

Nice try there. *winks*


Tristan and Vexor as it happens, just because I don't think anyone can make the current Dominix model look good.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#222 - 2015-05-04 04:12:38 UTC
Also please push a SKIN, any SKIN that actually looks good, through QA for the Thrasher. The options there are completely unappealing.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#223 - 2015-05-04 04:21:22 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Masao Kurata wrote:
so a quafe skin for instance lets you fly a quafe tristan, catalyst, vexor, dominix, megathron, thanatos, nyx and obelisk. Convert injected licenses which are now duplicates back into items on the redemption queue.

Did you just buy the quafe Tristan by any chance..?

Nice try there. *winks*


Tristan and Vexor as it happens, just because I don't think anyone can make the current Dominix model look good.

Yes, but when they finally release this new dominix model that shouldn't be an issue as the concepts of it look great.

But on topic, whatever they do they need to not annoy the people who have already invested in skins. If you check the market people have paid billions for the Quafe battleships, so obviously you cant compare that with a Tristan which is only 200mil at the moment.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#224 - 2015-05-04 04:26:18 UTC
Stuff gets devalued in games sometimes, that's fine. Just make the announcement ahead of time and we have no excuse.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#225 - 2015-05-04 04:31:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
Masao Kurata wrote:
Stuff gets devalued in games sometimes, that's fine. Just make the announcement ahead of time and we have no excuse.

Indeed, if you want a great way to undermine confidence in a new system and to make sure that people who have bought into it never purchase another skin again then you've hit the nail on the head with your suggestion.

*chuckles*
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#226 - 2015-05-04 04:34:39 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Masao Kurata wrote:
Stuff gets devalued in games sometimes, that's fine. Just make the announcement ahead of time and we have no excuse.

Indeed, if you want a great way to undermine confidence in a new system and to make sure that people who have bought into it never purchase another skin again then you've hit the nail on the head with your suggestion.

*chuckles*


I am suggesting not changing the AUR price of any SKINs available in the NES by even 1%. I only used Quafe as an example because I like that SKIN on ships which aren't the Dominix.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Dracarys.
#227 - 2015-05-04 04:40:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
CCP Darwin wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Even if you plan to release everything and are making an effort to do so, the pricing is... obnoxious.

OK, so why don't you give specific feedback. What do you want to see, and what price is the most you'd be willing to pay? Imagine everything conceivable is on the table.

Ah, right. Thanks for asking the question.

For starters, I would like to see the Faction and Megacorporation color schemes available on each and every hull.

Even knowing that one set of colors can SKIN everything, I would be willing to pay microtransaction costs for the right to enable it on one hull. I would probably have sticker shock over the price of a "SKIN every hull" license, though you could offer it for a slight discount compared to the total SKIN cost of every hull. Someone would buy it, and no one would get upset at the price, because it's a discount on prices they're OK with.

The NES would be a wall of selection, so I'd have to view by hull or by faction color and then ship class and then race. People like hulls more than colors, I think. The shopping sequence would go like: navigate to my favorite hull, flip through all the available colors for it, add them to shopping cart one by one according to the ones I like, check out. Sweet, I just spent $20 in AUR on a hull I like, and I wasn't gouged.

The good news is people's favorite hull changes as they skill up.

Rough estimate, there are how many base hull models in EVE? 100? Each one should be max $2.50, which means if I want a SKIN license that works on all ships, it would be $250.00 But keep in mind I'm a little more loose with disposable income. It should realistically be more like $1.00 per hull per color scheme.

It needs to work according to base hull, so Vexor / VNI / Ishtar etc for one SKIN, with the exception of bombers and other special snowflakes. Priced slightly less just for being unique and having less variations per hull? Perhaps not?

By Guristas colors, and any set of Faction / Megacorporation colors, I would get to buy it for microtransaction cost on:

Your pod
Crucifier
Executioner
Inquisitor
Magnate
Punisher
Tormentor
Bantam
Condor
Griffin
Heron
Kestrel
Merlin
Atron
Imicus
Incursus
Maulus
Navitas
Tristan
Breacher
Burst
Probe
Rifter
Slasher
Vigil
Venture
Each bomber
Arbitrator
Augoror
Maller
Omen
Blackbird
Caracal
Moa
Osprey
Celestis
Exequoror
Thorax
Vexor
Bellicose
Rupture
Scythe
Stabber
Coercer
Dragoon
Corax
Cormorant
Algos
Catalyst
Talwar
Thrasher
Orca (Serpentis Orca whaat)
Harbinger
Oracle
Prophecy
Drake
Ferox
Naga
Brutix
Myrmidon
Talos
Cyclone
Hurricane
Tornado
Abaddon
Apocalypse
Armageddon
Raven
Rokh
Scorpion
Dominix
Hyperion
Megathron
Maelstrom
Tempest
Typhoon
Archon
Aeon
Thanatos
Nyx
Nidhoggur
Hel
Chimera
Wyvern
Revelation
Moros
Naglfar
Phoenix
Avatar
Erebus
Ragnarok
Leviathan
Rorqual
Providence
Charon
Obelisk
Fenrir
Bowhead
The industrials and others (I won't list them, but I counted, there are 23 more including rookie ships and shuttles)
Pirate ships, 12 or something (Angel / Sansha etc). Maybe. Those ships are kind of odd with SKINs imo.

125+ possible hulls that each color scheme can be applied to, which means it would also apply to the T2.

one by one, $1.00 to $2.50 max.

For a just-to-offer-it-for-publicity and irl ballers (and really special occasion prizes like AT), a SKIN-every-ship license for single hull price x 125, so ranging from $125 - $312.50 to have a Serpentis license to SKIN everything. I suggest discounting that SKIN-everything license to $250.

75,000 AUR per color scheme total, discounted to something like 60,000 AUR for a SKIN everything license.

I already know I would gift one to Commissar Kate per year at Christmas time, with real money. Direct real money sales (and not PLEX) will be a trickle, but they will sell and again, no one will resent you for it when the individual ships are available a la carte. (Right now all I can get Kate is things like annuals, but we're about to not need to pay irl money to play EVE ;-)

You'd make it into the news for offering digital goods costing as much as a physical new PS4 or XBox One. And that will be okay. SC's LTI ship packs can suckit (ten total packs of $15 k is cute but you can spend way more in EVE mmmmothaf.....!!)

Speaking of, LTI would never sit right in EVE. SKINs are a perfect blend of getting something back that survives ship destruction, and loss that is an important part of EVE. This would be EVE doing it better.

Yes people wear $1,000.00 jeans but good god, we like to lounge around in Wal Mart tee shirts and shorts a lot too.

I realize not everyone has characters that can make use of a SKIN that applies to all hulls. But some players do, I have like ten. Once you get into that strata of players who can fly everything, and afford everything, it's hard to find things that entice them. This pricing structure I suggested covers them all the way down to rookies.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#228 - 2015-05-04 04:42:10 UTC
To me the problem with only having skins available for T1 hulls is that I don't fly any T1 hulls that I'd consider a vanity project.

The only time I ever use a T1 hull is when I consider them disposable junk that I don't care about getting blown up.

The stuff I'd actually want to spend AUR putting skins on is my T2/3 and faction hulls that I actually like. Spending 2000 AUR to reskin an omen doesn't interest me at all, it's an absurd investment for an entirely cosmetic change to a ship that I don't really care about. Essentially there's no point in looking fancy if I can't do it in a ship that is actually fancy.

But would I spend 4000 AUR to reskin my typhoon fleet issue or Bhaalgorn? Absolutely.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Dracarys.
#229 - 2015-05-04 04:43:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
To me the problem with only having skins available for T1 hulls is that I don't fly any T1 hulls that I'd consider a vanity project.

Yeah, this. Check my accounts, and my characters... no SKINs applied, mainly because nothing T2 is available, and I fly T2 nowadays. I have zero interest in T1 hull SKINs, and it's one reason why you should make SKINs apply according to base hull. Or else I'll never buy the T1s / you'd be obsoleting those by default for players like me.

About AUR pack pricing... the $100 pack is simply the $50 x 2. I'm not sure why that is, I'm guessing it's to make direct real money AUR purchases not too competitive against PLEX conversion, but I think you should revisit that. Perhaps also making a multiple PLEX -> AUR conversion discount would help lift the AUR pack discount limit.

... I mean, do you want to sell stuff or do you want to sell stuff?
Leo Burnhart
Through The Star Horizon
Legion of xXDEATHXx
#230 - 2015-05-04 06:15:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Leo Burnhart
CCP Darwin wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Even if you plan to release everything and are making an effort to do so, the pricing is... obnoxious.

OK, so why don't you give specific feedback. What do you want to see, and what price is the most you'd be willing to pay? Imagine everything conceivable is on the table.


You could sell an all-in-one skin pack for all subcap ships (t2-t3 included) of a certain color for 6300 AUR (like kador all-in-one, khanid all-in-one, etc.) and selling skin packs for ship classes with a prices like these:

500 AUR - frigate pack
1000 AUR - destroyer pack
1500 AUR - cruiser pack
2000 AUR - BC pack
2500 AUR - BS pack.
Total: 7500 AUR

Buying them individually should cost more (7500) comparing to all-in-one pack (6300). That would stimulate the customer to buy the all-in-one. Skins for capital ships are currently good priced. They should cost a lot (ranging 3500-6300 AUR).

Also you should go for "unique" skins like that chinese scorpion or armageddon (my love) with custom paint job (not just changed colors). Those skins should be sold "per ship" (like the system we currently have)
1000 AUR - frigate unique skin
1500 AUR - destroyer unique skin
2250 AUR - cruiser unique skin
2750 AUR - BC unique skin
3500 AUR - BS unique skin
5500 AUR - dread unique skin
6300 AUR - carrier unique skin
7500 AUR - titan/mothership unique skin

I would buy any skin with these prices if the paint job was really unique and refreshing.

Personally with this bug I love flying a khanid confessor, it looks great (and lorewise correct).
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Dracarys.
#231 - 2015-05-04 06:32:03 UTC
Woops, I forgot I converted two PLEX for an Archon SKIN for Kate and a Nidhoggur SKIN for myself. Did it just to participate in the hype over the rollout, but it was underwhelming.

Instead of having to refund any purchases that were already made, you could do what you did the first time around and make those never available again. It was crazy the first time and also valid in this situation to excuse such a drastic reset of pricing.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM Defensive Initiative
#232 - 2015-05-04 07:17:05 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Even if you plan to release everything and are making an effort to do so, the pricing is... obnoxious.

OK, so why don't you give specific feedback. What do you want to see, and what price is the most you'd be willing to pay? Imagine everything conceivable is on the table.


I will quote myself

Nana Skalski wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:


Out of curiosity... what would you define as overpriced?


I will try to answer this question, comparing SKIN system to a cosmetic clothing system in LOTRO.

In LOTRO you can buy cosmetic bundles that make you only look different, no stat changes. I will take full bundle of such items that can be used for multiple characters on your LOTRO account, and compare it in relation to SKIN system.

Clothing items in LOTRO are indestructible and permanent, they can't be damaged and lost if you don't want it (you can always trash them), but they can't be traded, but TP can be acquired thru playing LOTRO, so its like ISK grinding!.
EVE SKIN's could be lost, by a gank especially, and lost items are non tradable, what makes it in my eyes EVE-rough as for an item bought for real money.
In this light, EVE SKIN would have disadvantage (overpriced) when priced more than clothing in LOTRO, because they can be lost even when you don't want it.


  • Turbine Points are roughly 100 TP = 1 EUR for the smallest amount you can buy and you get 600 turbine points.
  • Full bundle of clothing items is priced 1295 TP. That is roughly 13 EUR.

  • 13 EUR for SKIN that can be equipped permenently on every ship in EVE



  • For "store exclusives" cosmetic clothing in LOTRO you have to give 295 TP = 3 EUR, and they consist only of one slot item: hat, boots, hauberk, or something like that.

  • "Only one ship of a kind (frigate, cruiser, ...) EVE SKIN", 3 EUR for something like that would have to be.

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#233 - 2015-05-04 07:32:50 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Even if you plan to release everything and are making an effort to do so, the pricing is... obnoxious.

OK, so why don't you give specific feedback. What do you want to see, and what price is the most you'd be willing to pay? Imagine everything conceivable is on the table.



I would expect you would get buyers if you offered the following service:

10 PLEX: Submit an alliance-specific custom skin (colour scheme, alliance logo appears somewhere on the hull if technically possible). All alliance members could use it and your alliance is deemed to own the skin (in-game, not in terms of real-world copyright).
5 PLEX: Your alliance may use the skin designed by another alliance, if you have their permission.



As for me personally - I play on minimum settings and so have no interest in buying skins unless they manage to be both hilarious and not immersion breaking.


I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Rob Kashuken
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#234 - 2015-05-04 07:35:32 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:


Comparison with LOTRO



As an aside, with LOTRO, paid membership also gives a monthly allocation (500) of their Turbine Points (equivalent concept to Aurum, different execution) per month of membership, as well as additional TP based in packs at certain price points.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#235 - 2015-05-04 07:35:34 UTC
One more thing I'd like to see - permanent skins available from COSMOS missions.

Yes, some of these (from highsec COSMOS missions) will quickly become worth very little. But some might remain desired.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#236 - 2015-05-04 07:42:40 UTC
Jennifer Maxwell wrote:
Zappity wrote:
CCP Darwin wrote:
I'll be honest, when Space Object Factory became a thing, we all had these types of moments at CCP, mixing and matching ships and looks. It's enormously fun.

Hilarious CCP logic. Enormously fun, clearly doesn't fit in our game.

Regarding the lore angle, why would capsuleers really care about licensing conditions imposed by corporations? Especially in this instance where the tech was stolen in the first place.

Hilarious entitlement logic. Isn't what I want and how I want it, clearly the company isn't doing it right.
Rubbish. It is nothing to do with entitlement. The devs had a great time playing with a really cool feature. And chose not to implement it. If it is such a winner, why not make it so? That's the only point I am making.

Jennifer Maxwell wrote:
Regarding the lore angle, so you paint your car a new color every day?
If it had an automatic system by which I could do so, yes.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#237 - 2015-05-04 07:45:08 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Even if you plan to release everything and are making an effort to do so, the pricing is... obnoxious.

OK, so why don't you give specific feedback. What do you want to see, and what price is the most you'd be willing to pay? Imagine everything conceivable is on the table.



Ok i will take you up on that.

First every skin on every ship does work with that recent lore trailer with disguises and everything.

However, skins that behave like that need to be in a size category not a specific ship category.


Example

Gallente quafe frigate
Gallente quafe cruiser.

Since you are getting multiple ships with one skin i would expect to pay a median range price for each ship range. So the more ships it affects the higher the price, the fewer ships it effects the lower the price. So in this case for quafe, frigates would cost teh most, where battle ships and destroyers would cost the least as they affect the least amount of ships by size category.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#238 - 2015-05-04 07:47:28 UTC
An annoyance I have with the whole system is that I rarely actually look to my ship. Would it be possible to get a window-in-window view of my ship when zoomed out for a tactical view? That would be really useful to see ship effects, too.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#239 - 2015-05-04 07:51:16 UTC
I have been playing with the bug and it has been some of the most fun I have had with a single feature in eve.. no joke. Its such a beautiful game and some skins just let that shine in ways that nothing I have seen does. At first I was feeling that some of the justification around lore was valid.. but as I kept playing and took my Serpentis skinned Sleipner out on a roam I was convinced that you have to have all skins for all ships even if they are just a color scheme change and not a pattern. I am a role player. Lore means a lot to me. But I can’t get over the sight of my alts each having a different paint on the same ship to match their race. Its like an unrealized dream.

So my sale strategy is go all out and let every skin currently out affect every hull as a simple color swap like they are mostly now. Sell patterned skins as a pack, ie like how the Sukuuvestaa is on some ships. Sell the individuals only if they are super special like the YC117 skins that I see you have hidden.

My price range around be based around how intense the skin is. ::Using US dollars:: All the gold and silver shiny ones with patterns would of course cost the most but at most 30$ where more plain and flat skins would cost at least 10$. These of course go to all ships. The limited pattern skins that only affect some ships would be in the 5$ to 20$ range based on how many and the quality of the skins. The ultra rare would be about the same based on how sweet it is.
Finally if QA is a serious problem, my solution is to make a chart. That can be accessed in game that has all QA tested ships and skin combo’s. Any that don’t fall on this fall under the rules that CCP currently has up for the bug, and a warning is issued on using it.
Shinzhi Xadi
Doomheim
#240 - 2015-05-04 07:54:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Shinzhi Xadi
Leo Burnhart wrote:
CCP Darwin wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Even if you plan to release everything and are making an effort to do so, the pricing is... obnoxious.

OK, so why don't you give specific feedback. What do you want to see, and what price is the most you'd be willing to pay? Imagine everything conceivable is on the table.


You could sell an all-in-one skin pack for all subcap ships (t2-t3 included) of a certain color for 6300 AUR (like kador all-in-one, khanid all-in-one, etc.) and selling skin packs for ship classes with a prices like these:

500 AUR - frigate pack
1000 AUR - destroyer pack
1500 AUR - cruiser pack
2000 AUR - BC pack
2500 AUR - BS pack.
Total: 7500 AUR

Buying them individually should cost more (7500) comparing to all-in-one pack (6300). That would stimulate the customer to buy the all-in-one. Skins for capital ships are currently good priced. They should cost a lot (ranging 3500-6300 AUR).

Also you should go for "unique" skins like that chinese scorpion or armageddon (my love) with custom paint job (not just changed colors). Those skins should be sold "per ship" (like the system we currently have)
1000 AUR - frigate unique skin
1500 AUR - destroyer unique skin
2250 AUR - cruiser unique skin
2750 AUR - BC unique skin
3500 AUR - BS unique skin
5500 AUR - dread unique skin
6300 AUR - carrier unique skin
7500 AUR - titan/mothership unique skin

I would buy any skin with these prices if the paint job was really unique and refreshing.

Personally with this bug I love flying a khanid confessor, it looks great (and lorewise correct).


If we must buy them by hull size, i would agree with this post, and could see myself buying a few skins.

I still would rather have the skins be simply sold by their livery/faction and apply to ALL ships. It sure would shorten the aurum store list and make choosing your colors quick and easy. Since all skins arent tested on all ships yet (blood raiders on the victory yacht is interesting), just sell the skins with a warning, that they dont display properly on all ships. CCP can get around to adjusting specific problems in the future, and in the meantime, we get to enjoy our new colors.

I would be willing to pay up to 2 plex for an unlimited skin I can use on anything.

As far as restrictions due to lore, I can see Empire Faction or Faction Corp colors only being allowed on that race of ships. So Sarum livery only on amarr ships. However, I believe PIRATE livery should be unlimited and usable on ANY ship. Pirates would use any ship they pleased and care nothing for empire faction rules.

CCP my bet is you have a real winner here. Everybody I know in EVE is enjoying the skins. I have had more fun in the last 24 hours trying skins, as I have had playing in the last month.

Please dont mess this up with unnecessary restrictions or bad prices. Selling 50 overpriced skins is not better than selling 5000 skins at a fair price!

Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.