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[Incursions] HS and LS Specific
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Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2015-05-01 01:46:16 UTC
Picking up this possible "unconsistance" of who control the sys while Sansha invasion the author wants to open up additional battlefield in high sec without reaction from official high sec forces. Explaining how good it is to have a place of good fights.

Sounds like a trap. Go to low sec and kill everything you'll find in local.

Ganking couple of mininers in high is kind of easy task and mostly boring with predicted results. So make the kb more green and more heavy from isk stand pov of course would be good to look at those pimped incursion runners, the only thing stops is stupid concord. I read that whole thing exactly like that.

How about No?

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Mario Putzo
#42 - 2015-05-01 04:39:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Incursions should disrupt security features within the areas they have control.
CONCORD

I wasn't clear on how your proposal would affect CONCORD. Is CONCORD effectively disabled during incursions, or does CONCORD's response time vary depending on Sansha control? ie: 100% control = no CONCORD, 50% control = 50% increased CONCORD response time. Thanks.



I was thinking more along the lines of something like a progression of security being disabled.

25% control would see gate guns go.
50% control would see Station guns go.
(firs two tiers are more so to facilitate LS, and cripple their system defenses early in an incursion)
75% control would see Empire Navies go.
(this really only aids in drug smuggling, and pirate players ability to transverse some areas of space they normally might not be able to)
100% control would see CONCORD go.
(The big dog, would be the last dog to bow out of a fight and would signify total "Piratization" of the affected systems)
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#43 - 2015-05-01 21:34:36 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:


I was thinking more along the lines of something like a progression of security being disabled.

25% control would see gate guns go.
50% control would see Station guns go.
(firs two tiers are more so to facilitate LS, and cripple their system defenses early in an incursion)
75% control would see Empire Navies go.
(this really only aids in drug smuggling, and pirate players ability to transverse some areas of space they normally might not be able to)
100% control would see CONCORD go.
(The big dog, would be the last dog to bow out of a fight and would signify total "Piratization" of the affected systems)

So, we would have to clear sites in effectively nullsec to get back protection from concord, and people could have concord suddenly drop out from under them without warning? Good luck convincing anyone else this is a good idea......

Sounds like you don't either know how incursions work, or are actively being disingenuous on them.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Eldwinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2015-05-02 00:36:29 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
I was thinking more along the lines of something like a progression of security being disabled.

25% control would see gate guns go.
50% control would see Station guns go.
(firs two tiers are more so to facilitate LS, and cripple their system defenses early in an incursion)
75% control would see Empire Navies go.
(this really only aids in drug smuggling, and pirate players ability to transverse some areas of space they normally might not be able to)
100% control would see CONCORD go.
(The big dog, would be the last dog to bow out of a fight and would signify total "Piratization" of the affected systems)


I am thinking this should be flipped. Where as the incursion runners progress along the incursion, the security of the system will be restored in equal kind. That way there is opportunity for the incursion runners to be selective with what they want to risk for ship selections based off the percentage completed. Also this allows for pirates to have opportunity to pvp for short periods of time.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#45 - 2015-05-02 00:56:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
What level do Incursions start out at, and how quickly does it take the Sansha to escalate to 100% control?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2015-05-02 01:12:59 UTC
They start at 100% Sansha influence I believe.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#47 - 2015-05-02 03:34:09 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
What level do Incursions start out at, and how quickly does it take the Sansha to escalate to 100% control?

They start, with 0 warning to the constellation they take over, at 100% influence.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Mario Putzo
#48 - 2015-05-02 03:53:17 UTC
Eldwinn wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
I was thinking more along the lines of something like a progression of security being disabled.

25% control would see gate guns go.
50% control would see Station guns go.
(firs two tiers are more so to facilitate LS, and cripple their system defenses early in an incursion)
75% control would see Empire Navies go.
(this really only aids in drug smuggling, and pirate players ability to transverse some areas of space they normally might not be able to)
100% control would see CONCORD go.
(The big dog, would be the last dog to bow out of a fight and would signify total "Piratization" of the affected systems)


I am thinking this should be flipped. Where as the incursion runners progress along the incursion, the security of the system will be restored in equal kind. That way there is opportunity for the incursion runners to be selective with what they want to risk for ship selections based off the percentage completed. Also this allows for pirates to have opportunity to pvp for short periods of time.


Yes I guess that would make more sense based on how the system actually displays control levels. I was more so just highlighting the break points type thing.

I suppose, and for the sake of cohesion I am actually going to merge Gate Guns and Station Guns into one entitiy (or 3 tiers.)

(% is based on level of completion, not level of control)
0-33% would see Concord Gone
0-66% would see Empire Naives Gone
0-99% would see Gate/Station guns gone
100% full system security.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#49 - 2015-05-02 04:26:01 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:

(% is based on level of completion, not level of control)
0-33% would see Concord Gone
0-66% would see Empire Naives Gone
0-99% would see Gate/Station guns gone
100% full system security.



So people still have the security apparatus drop on them out of the clear blue sky?
I realize EVE is supposed to be hardcore, but if you are in the middle of a highsec constellation moving stuff in a freighter, and boom, incursion spawns, then you are now instantly candy. No warning. No way to avoid it. Just dockup and wait for the incursion constellation to be brought down from effectively nullsec. {sarc} yey.{/sarc}

The systems in question still display as highsec, so newbies or people who don't read the patch notes when this launches hop on through, and get killed without knowing what is going on. {sarc} yey.{/sarc}

Incursion VG fleet with 2 logi that is trying to reduce the influence has one jammed by rats, and the other busy repping the incoming DPS from the site. Players hop in and can now kill the fleet almost unopposed, without fear of concord. {sarc} yey.{/sarc}

In short, even worse idea than variable sec status. At least sec status displays on the map and has a given set of rules associated with a sec status which are predictable and invariant.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Mario Putzo
#50 - 2015-05-02 04:37:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
James Baboli wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:

(% is based on level of completion, not level of control)
0-33% would see Concord Gone
0-66% would see Empire Naives Gone
0-99% would see Gate/Station guns gone
100% full system security.



So people still have the security apparatus drop on them out of the clear blue sky?
I realize EVE is supposed to be hardcore, but if you are in the middle of a highsec constellation moving stuff in a freighter, and boom, incursion spawns, then you are now instantly candy. No warning. No way to avoid it. Just dockup and wait for the incursion constellation to be brought down from effectively nullsec. {sarc} yey.{/sarc}

The systems in question still display as highsec, so newbies or people who don't read the patch notes when this launches hop on through, and get killed without knowing what is going on. {sarc} yey.{/sarc}

Incursion VG fleet with 2 logi that is trying to reduce the influence has one jammed by rats, and the other busy repping the incoming DPS from the site. Players hop in and can now kill the fleet almost unopposed, without fear of concord. {sarc} yey.{/sarc}

In short, even worse idea than variable sec status. At least sec status displays on the map and has a given set of rules associated with a sec status which are predictable and invariant.


I have neither dismissed warning people or acknowledged it. I am kind of torn on it.

On one hand ya giving people a heads up is nice and all, but on the other hand, the information is already available in game.
Journal, Neocom will give you incursion information

Out of game sources include places like
Dotlan, Shadowlauch,

I don't think holding peoples hands should be a thing. Especially since the security level of the system is not actually changing, the security features are simply being disabled. If an incursion hits a .6 system, it will still be a .6 system, it will still be HS. The only change is dependent on the listed "tier" of control (or completion.)

If you blindly take gates without planning your route...then that is the chance you take imo.

As far as surprise incursions...thats the rub. Unfortunately. Either make a run for it, or dock up and wait it out. The nice thing is PVP focused people won't be able to predict the locations either, and they don't spawn in market hub constellations (iirc).

In regards to incurssion fleet, they might have to change their strategies up a bit for the initial phase until the can help get CONCORD a foothold in system again. This means they might have to use more PVP oriented doctrines, instead of GankPVE **** propped up by Logi. And who knows maybe after they perfect fighting an incursion while engaging groups of players, some folks might decide to form a lowsec incursion group too.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#51 - 2015-05-02 05:09:18 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:


In regards to incurssion fleet, they might have to change their strategies up a bit for the initial phase until the can help get CONCORD a foothold in system again. This means they might have to use more PVP oriented doctrines, instead of GankPVE **** propped up by Logi. And who knows maybe after they perfect fighting an incursion while engaging groups of players, some folks might decide to form a lowsec incursion group too.


To my knowledge, outside of the alliance fleets, there are at least 3 invite only LS incursion communities that act kinda like the HS ones. You just don't see them adverting, because then it is an invitation to drop them in transit.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
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