EVE General Discussion

I'll pick this apart.


> While I disagree with you on the premise that mining laser do not kill enemy ships,
> and that mining ships are terribly inefficient at pvp,
> I agree with you to the point that people can fly together, and choose not to.

Mining lasers kill enemy ships? Am I misunderstanding?
I'm not sure how effeciency matters, but skiffs are badass ships for combat.
The drone bonus makes quite a difference. (that's why the Fozzman added it)



> I continue to assert that a lot of the problems of Eve online happen to be through the people being a herd of cats.
> People don't want to work together.

More accurately speaking, most people only care about themselves and only see exactly that far.
These people can be actually observed through their ingame actions, their chatting and their posts.



> Maybe its irony that people who want to be "the ultimate badass killer" are antisocial
> even to the point of working together helpfully.

Not sure what the Irony would be here.
Who are you referring to anyway?

People like CODE ?

I'm wondering, because this applies to the actual griefers, the carebears.

They are extremely antisocial, literally hate on everyone who doesn't agree with them,
especially hate on the players and not the characters,
and they always somehow pretend to be badass and superior, while only shooting NPCs.
And it's not a coincidence that so many of them pick the amarrian race.

Many many people of the wester "civilised" world unknowingly live by the motto: Ignorance is Strength.
Anyone who doesn't see how this applies might be a part of the problem.



> Maybe its irony that people who want to mine alone in peace
> don't get that they need others watching their back to have that peaceful alone time.

Again ... no clue about the irony.

They do that, because they desire the isolation. Not having to deal with others
avoids any risk of having to be confronted with one's own inadequacies.



> In the ideal eve, miners buy combat pilots who fly ops to cover a section of lowsec or high sec,
> these costs then being offset by raising the price of mined ore.
> Thats one of the problems of industry and miners.
> They undersell themselves so much they cant afford actual protection.

This needs correction, because you make a conclusion based on only a fraction of the information.

First, there must be a part in this group who simply does not know better.
"Minerals I mine are free" pretty much equals either cluelessness about time management.
People who exchange time for ISK still have a point, but it's a rather isolated and inefficient one.



> Their profit margins are so low because they lack business sense,
> that they cant deal with any bumps of sudden necessary expenditures.

And here's the thing. The margins don't matter at all.
The majority of people simply does not even consider it for various reasons.

It's either unknowingness about how the game works and how this is actually possible ...
... or it's part of the "Ignorance is Strength" livestyle and thus equally unknown to them.

You might want to call it a limited spectrum of thoughts and ideas. Ignorance.



> In the ideal eve, people do work with other players,
> rather than seeing them as an inconvenience or an obstable to sole play.

I agree, that'd be ideal. And I also agree that at some point in time many, many players
will realise others as inconvencience, annoyance or an obstacle ... with various ways of reactions.



> Why do you play an online multiplayer game to hide in a hole and play it solo?
> If you want to do that, there's any number of 80's-90's games of SpaceTrader(tm),
> that dont have a consistent sub cost, are much cheaper for the original product/cd,
> and achieve the same thing you're doing in this game.

These people do that, because that's how they work. Ignorance is Strength, or they don't know better.
I can not tell if MMOs turned these people into that, or if the MMOs adapted to people being like that,
but the MMO market pretty much works that way.


(1/2)

It targets these people. They offer a lie of a massively multiplaying world where thousands play together,
while actually giving people exactly what they want. Isolation and the illusion of being superior.
Again here the hint at the amarrians.


> Of course, the other part of the problem is people who actively pirate miners,
> when they usually fly as someone who tries to get paid to fight for other corps in wardecs.
> Blowing up potential employers gets you jollies in the short run, but cuts you off from long term profits.

I *would* agree on that if it wasn't for the fact that people who get killed most likely had no idea about it,
or simply did not care enough to tank or hire protection. Protection, btw, collides with the fake idea
of being superior to others.


> Without cooperation, even if its just outsourcing a part of your business model,
> you can't survive in eve, especially as a non-combat.

I disagree, but it's far beyond the abilities of these people.



> Ironically, as much as people using alts, to farm while they pirate with their main,
> can be said to be as risk averse as highsec carebears, they still actually do cooperate with others,
> by being part of some null alliance space where they can farm with their alts,
> to funnel all their profits to their main in order to fun their pvp adventures in lowsec or null.

That's a bit limited, because not everyone does that. I don't do it. I don't farm anywhere, actually.
I'm sure that most people in highsec also don't have a null-alt, but we might find out eventually.



> The reason you win at single player games is because the game is designed to let you win.

Which also applies to MMOs. Except EVE, of course. In this post, when I mention MMOs,
then I always talk about the ones who do not actually deserve the title.




There.
Much more verbose.


In any way do we most likely have to live with the fact that things will not change.
It will just get worse, as these people will spawn children who are *most likely* going to be even worse than that.

As we can not expect people to vote anyone who did not deliberately manipulate them to it ...
... and we even less can expect anyone to actually step up and try to make things right ...
... (besides him most likely getting killed anyway) ...
... this game eventually has to cater to these people.

Players like myself are a minority.
Eventually we'll just phase out slowly.


What's really funny about this is the fact that it was *predicted a long time ago* that people will turn into this.

I wonder how many people now come up with a robotic "conspiracy" scream, although it's factually true.

Never said they did, just making the point that WoW's niche is not their cash shop... and the cash shop is not why people play WoW.



Eve- Whats a better/bigger world PVP based game?
WoW- What is a bigger and longer running arena/bg based PVP game?
ESO - New, but elder scrolls franchise and is about to drop on console, one to watch ;)
Planetside franchise- what is a longer running and more populated mmofps?
League of legend- lol just check the twitch numbers on that one if you haven't seen them... 100k+ viewers constantly.

What is you argument beyond a pretentious scoff?

It's not my fault.
Just look at what they portrait.

They are the self perceived master race.
They are extremely religious.
They have slaves.
They even look like assholes.

I am talking about that one subrace specifically.
"The old men". I never played Amarr, I don't recall them.

If you know the lore, then you know what I am talking about.


Now just combine and compare the typical characteristica of hating carebears,
amarrians and religious people in the US and conservatives.

A strong tendency to hypocrisy is one of the many they all share, as example.


If "superiority complex" comes to your mind ...
... then you hit the nail on the head.


Of course there are varying degrees of everything, but the general tendency is actually observable!
(I often wonder if posts like these make people reconsider and influence the meta)


We can, in fact, find people who strongly tend to behave like this literally everywhere.


They also have a tendency to post on the forums.



I drifted off "Amarrians" a bit. :p

I can't possibly offend due to being Amarrian. I'm way too hot to offend.

Too late. Reddit has already moved in.

I quit after the first expansion for those blood elves made all my hard work gear worthless. It is kind of fun to play WoW, but I'd definitely play it for free or a very low cost, rather than the high monthly sub + expansion prices. WoW vanilla was a decent game. the PvE aspect of threat management to have a group achieve something was fun. Other than that it lost its appeal when expansions made earlier content worthless to raid and turned purple level 60 stuff into trash compared to green level 62 stuff from draeni.

I may have skipped a few parts myself.

Earth and Beyond refugee here, and still wondering where all the fish went.

I tried WoW for a couple months in the wayback and it just failed to hook me. Of course this was after I finally put EQ to rest and had been playing EVE for a while. It struck me as mindnumbingly simple and a tad more grindy than I was willing to endure... I'd put up with grind/timesink crap from EQ for enough years, so wasn't really keen on doing it again.

I do feel a limited form of sympathy for longtime players of WoW and similar games who come over to EVE. Most of them simply aren't going to survive the experience, much like a bunny or a squirrel that runs out in front of a car. It's sad to see the little critter go, but physics is a harsh mistress and they made a choice to do a dangerous thing. I think most of these critters don't grasp that the simple act of undocking is a dangerous thing, despite there being warning, and end up fairly well shocked when that thing happens.

It's the behavior after the event that matters. If they leave, that's fine. If they stay, cool. If they rant and rave and push for the game to change to prevent future tragedies such as their own... then we have a problem.

So you agree that most people aren't capable.

They need others, FCs, to hold their hand.
F1 pushers aren't solo achievers either.

That's reality in all of these big groups.

Stopped at half, because you are ignorant of paragraphs.

Maybe learn reading and interpreting text properly.