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WoW refugees and the future of EVE
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Freya Sertan
Doomheim
#81 - 2015-04-30 19:39:03 UTC
Hicksimus wrote:
Freya Sertan wrote:

Hold up. If you admit you don't even know the amount of subscribers how can you possibly say it's gone down?


While nobody can say numbers are going down with certainly I'm sure everybody can grasp the logic of self fulfilling prophecy and as a result they can grasp the concept of CCP never wanting to show that "EvE is dying". Given that knowledge and CCP's employment reductions lately plus their push towards paid content we can also be certain that they have revenue issues. So I can't tell you with absolute certainty that subscriber numbers are going down but I can tell you that the logic exists to suggest that it is the cause of them not showing the subscriber numbers.


That is the antithesis to logic, that is speculation.

New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.

Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#82 - 2015-04-30 20:09:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Hicksimus wrote:
Freya Sertan wrote:

Hold up. If you admit you don't even know the amount of subscribers how can you possibly say it's gone down?


While nobody can say numbers are going down with certainly I'm sure everybody can grasp the logic of self fulfilling prophecy and as a result they can grasp the concept of CCP never wanting to show that "EvE is dying". Given that knowledge and CCP's employment reductions lately plus their push towards paid content we can also be certain that they have revenue issues. So I can't tell you with absolute certainty that subscriber numbers are going down but I can tell you that the logic exists to suggest that it is the cause of them not showing the subscriber numbers.


Ah ok so because they have done what every game does by introducing a microtransaction feature (which is damn profitable) and layed off staff from a cancelled project eve is dying, come on have a word

Following a trend does not mean you have revenue issues, they would have been stupid not to implement microtransactions

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#83 - 2015-04-30 20:33:08 UTC
Freya Sertan wrote:
Hold up. If you admit you don't even know the amount of subscribers how can you possibly say it's gone down?

Because every single metric we have at our disposal has shown a decline in activity, and for as long as we have been able to correlate the two, activity has covaried with subscription rates.

The only real difference lately as a result of the bans and policy changes is that the activity has become less swingy; it is still trending downwards over the last two years.
Iam The Flash
Doomheim
#84 - 2015-04-30 22:33:46 UTC
You people are truly pathetic.

You make a forum thread for *like and get likes* just to up *your counter* so it looks like people like you.

You destroy null sec by infesting empire with grifer alts because you people don't want to look for fights anymore, u'd rather camp market hubs and then complain on the forums about lack of pvp in null when it's you, the so called null pvpers who are to blame.

You constantly slam WoW, even tho it has over 7 million players worldwide and we don't even have 3/4 of a million because EvE is so broke it's a joke.

You constantly screw up empire market prices by slamming frieghters non stop and slamming barges for lols non stop.

You, the PvP population are single handedly destroying EvE and you have the audacity to come on here and COMPLAIN about ship skins and low numbers online.

You use grifer alts to destroy new player corps non stop for then damn lols of it.

You're pathetic.

Alll the problems with EvE, you have only yourselves to blame
Paranoid Loyd
#85 - 2015-04-30 22:39:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Iam The Flash wrote:
You people are truly pathetic.

You make a forum thread for *like and get likes* just to up *your counter* so it looks like people like you.

You destroy null sec by infesting empire with grifer alts because you people don't want to look for fights anymore, u'd rather camp market hubs and then complain on the forums about lack of pvp in null when it's you, the so called null pvpers who are to blame.

You constantly slam WoW, even tho it has over 7 million players worldwide and we don't even have 3/4 of a million because EvE is so broke it's a joke.

You constantly screw up empire market prices by slamming frieghters non stop and slamming barges for lols non stop.

You, the PvP population are single handedly destroying EvE and you have the audacity to come on here and COMPLAIN about ship skins and low numbers online.

You use grifer alts to destroy new player corps non stop for then damn lols of it.

You're pathetic.

Alll the problems with EvE, you have only yourselves to blame

Glorious tears.

You people

Also, I looked at the LAGL thread, I see you posted there a few times, hypocrite.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#86 - 2015-04-30 22:45:45 UTC
Iam The Flash wrote:
You people are truly pathetic.

You make a forum thread for *like and get likes* just to up *your counter* so it looks like people like you.

You destroy null sec by infesting empire with grifer alts because you people don't want to look for fights anymore, u'd rather camp market hubs and then complain on the forums about lack of pvp in null when it's you, the so called null pvpers who are to blame.

You constantly slam WoW, even tho it has over 7 million players worldwide and we don't even have 3/4 of a million because EvE is so broke it's a joke.

You constantly screw up empire market prices by slamming frieghters non stop and slamming barges for lols non stop.

You, the PvP population are single handedly destroying EvE and you have the audacity to come on here and COMPLAIN about ship skins and low numbers online.

You use grifer alts to destroy new player corps non stop for then damn lols of it.

You're pathetic.

Alll the problems with EvE, you have only yourselves to blame

BREAKING NEWS:

PVP is destroying a PVP game! More on this story at 11...
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#87 - 2015-04-30 23:08:10 UTC
However, that rant does have one interesting idea: To get more PvP in low and Null, remove PvP opportunities in High.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#88 - 2015-04-30 23:13:23 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
However, that rant does have one interesting idea: To get more PvP in low and Null, remove PvP opportunities in High.


So... Remove High?
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2015-04-30 23:19:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinete Jenius
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Catering to the same player base as most other MMO is not a safe bet. Look at all the wow killers...

Most of the "wow killers" weren't advertised as such just over zealous fanboys and haters of WoW made such proclamations.

AION would of slaughtered WoW if NCsoft was decent at anything other then making videos. Ncsoft kept the grind the RNG and the oldschool crap while essentially ignoring the bots and spammers. If a competent group had been in control of AIOn then things would of been a lot different.

That's the only game I'm aware of that actually really ever was a potential wow killer.


Rowells wrote:

PVP is destroying a PVP game! More on this story at 11...

It's more like griefing in a pvp game is destroying the chance for real pvp. At least I think that was the point he was trying to make.

In my experience shooting a miner or a freighter is no different from shooting a npc rat. The risk is all the same and your victim has no chance.


Avaelica Kuershin wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
However, that rant does have one interesting idea: To get more PvP in low and Null, remove PvP opportunities in High.


So... Remove High?

That would be an amazingly efficient way to completely kill eve.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#90 - 2015-04-30 23:21:31 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
However, that rant does have one interesting idea: To get more PvP in low and Null, remove PvP opportunities in High.

I think you're looking at it wrong.

"To make the grass greener in my yard, I must make my neighbors grass less green"

Unless those "opportunities" you are referring to are the players/targets themselves.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#91 - 2015-04-30 23:27:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Kinete Jenius wrote:
In my experience shooting a miner or a freighter is no different from shooting a npc rat.
If people want to act like NPC rats then they'll get treated as such.

Quote:
The risk is all the same and your victim has no chance.
The "victim" has every chance, they have access to the exact same tools and mechanics as the "griefers", that they choose not to use them is their problem.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#92 - 2015-04-30 23:29:23 UTC
Kinete Jenius wrote:

It's more like griefing in a pvp game is destroying the chance for real pvp. At least I think that was the point he was trying to make.

In my experience shooting a miner or a freighter is no different from shooting a npc rat. The risk is all the same and your victim has no chance.



Ah... the debate of what 'real' pvp is. Roll
I admit to having played that other game and have been ganked... (and returned the favour) and guess what, as far as the GMs there are concerned, ganking by a max level character is still PVP.

I think with the overuse of the word 'griefer', I may take some of Feyd's advice.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#93 - 2015-04-30 23:29:52 UTC
Kinete Jenius wrote:
Rowells wrote:

PVP is destroying a PVP game! More on this story at 11...

It's more like griefing in a pvp game is destroying the chance for real pvp. At least I think that was the point he was trying to make.

In my experience shooting a miner or a freighter is no different from shooting a npc rat. The risk is all the same and your victim has no chance.


And by what definition of "real pvp" are you using as opposed to classifying it as greifing? Surely you're not trying to inject things like consent into this particular aspect, no?

And in my experience, shooting back or evading death as a miner is plenty of chance. Granted a freighter doesn't have guns, but that doesn't mean it should be perfectly safe.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#94 - 2015-04-30 23:35:49 UTC
Everyone knows real pvp only happens in instanced arenas with balanced teams who have willingly queued to be there.
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2015-04-30 23:37:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinete Jenius
Rowells wrote:
Kinete Jenius wrote:
Rowells wrote:

PVP is destroying a PVP game! More on this story at 11...

It's more like griefing in a pvp game is destroying the chance for real pvp. At least I think that was the point he was trying to make.

In my experience shooting a miner or a freighter is no different from shooting a npc rat. The risk is all the same and your victim has no chance.


And by what definition of "real pvp" are you using as opposed to classifying it as greifing? Surely you're not trying to inject things like consent into this particular aspect, no?

And in my experience, shooting back or evading death as a miner is plenty of chance. Granted a freighter doesn't have guns, but that doesn't mean it should be perfectly safe.

When I want to gank someone there's usually very little to nothing they can do but die. If you're doing it right your victim has no chance. All it requires is that you spend a little time setting up the gank before hand. As the ganker you have all the advantages. You decide when and where the confrontation occurs. Your target can't even shoot back till you've already engaged them which is a huge advantage especially with alpha ganks.


I have no care to get into the debate on what constitutes "real" pvp. My observation stands regardless of your views on what constitutes real pvp.


EDIT : What I do find kind of hilarious is how the same posts cycle through the forums every year. This style of thread has popped up since basically the beta era. Everytime CCP gets rid of a stupid mechanic or makes it slightly easier or more commonsensical to do something people rant and rave about accommodating wow players and stuff.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#96 - 2015-04-30 23:43:55 UTC
Kinete Jenius wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Kinete Jenius wrote:
Rowells wrote:

PVP is destroying a PVP game! More on this story at 11...

It's more like griefing in a pvp game is destroying the chance for real pvp. At least I think that was the point he was trying to make.

In my experience shooting a miner or a freighter is no different from shooting a npc rat. The risk is all the same and your victim has no chance.


And by what definition of "real pvp" are you using as opposed to classifying it as greifing? Surely you're not trying to inject things like consent into this particular aspect, no?

And in my experience, shooting back or evading death as a miner is plenty of chance. Granted a freighter doesn't have guns, but that doesn't mean it should be perfectly safe.

When I want to gank someone there's usually very little to nothing they can do but die. If you're doing it right your victim has no chance. All it requires is that you spend a little time setting up the gank before hand.

And that's to say the victim can't also do some work beforehand in order to avoid or deter that situation? The 'sudden overwhelming force' tactic is in no way unique to ganking.
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2015-04-30 23:47:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinete Jenius
Rowells wrote:
Kinete Jenius wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Kinete Jenius wrote:
Rowells wrote:

PVP is destroying a PVP game! More on this story at 11...

It's more like griefing in a pvp game is destroying the chance for real pvp. At least I think that was the point he was trying to make.

In my experience shooting a miner or a freighter is no different from shooting a npc rat. The risk is all the same and your victim has no chance.


And by what definition of "real pvp" are you using as opposed to classifying it as greifing? Surely you're not trying to inject things like consent into this particular aspect, no?

And in my experience, shooting back or evading death as a miner is plenty of chance. Granted a freighter doesn't have guns, but that doesn't mean it should be perfectly safe.

When I want to gank someone there's usually very little to nothing they can do but die. If you're doing it right your victim has no chance. All it requires is that you spend a little time setting up the gank before hand.

And that's to say the victim can't also do some work beforehand in order to avoid or deter that situation? The 'sudden overwhelming force' tactic is in no way unique to ganking.
Well in the case of a miner they can watch local and dscan but that's it. Assuming you're not going gung ho full on code troll on them (which can be hilarious) then the miner's only hope is to watch dscan. But oh wait my warp in point is a cov ops cloaked ship that then starts bumping the miner as it tries to run as it noticed my catas on dscan. What is that miner going to do now other then die? try to jam me? hahahaha. Use it's drones to whittle one of the catas down a little? Doesn't matter I intend to lose them anyway.

Freighters are even more screwed as they are forced to move through predictable paths and not even a scout can save them if you're properly setup.


I'm not a huge fan of the blob tactics that exist in huge nullsec fights. I stepped out of that area years ago out of boredom.
Yobu Khan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2015-05-01 00:01:08 UTC
Iam The Flash wrote:
You people are truly pathetic.

You make a forum thread for *like and get likes* just to up *your counter* so it looks like people like you.

You destroy null sec by infesting empire with grifer alts because you people don't want to look for fights anymore, u'd rather camp market hubs and then complain on the forums about lack of pvp in null when it's you, the so called null pvpers who are to blame.

You constantly slam WoW, even tho it has over 7 million players worldwide and we don't even have 3/4 of a million because EvE is so broke it's a joke.

You constantly screw up empire market prices by slamming frieghters non stop and slamming barges for lols non stop.

You, the PvP population are single handedly destroying EvE and you have the audacity to come on here and COMPLAIN about ship skins and low numbers online.

You use grifer alts to destroy new player corps non stop for then damn lols of it.

You're pathetic.

Alll the problems with EvE, you have only yourselves to blame



Im sorry to say that even though he expressed himself in a very noxious way , what this guy says is very close to the picture i got after 10 days of playing.
Its my first post here , but i honestly jump to the forums for everything that rises up. What i see ? New players like me with similar concerns , from tutorials to economy to skills or pvp , and same old veterans telling people "this game is not for you, *** off, go back to wow ".
Same stuff overall can be dating back from 2008 maybe, and few ofc willing to work it out.
And thats a general point of view from the forums to new eden.Somewhere in this forums they got described as Cannibalistic.

But contrary to the OP, I believe the company is to blame for the current situation.
As the years passed mmo industry evolved and so did the average gamer.This is reality even if we like it or not.
CCP should have taken some decisions that could possibly leave older players with a feeling of unfairness in favour of community growth with fresh pilots. Instead now we got a Fossilised point of view from the majority of the veterans in denial of anything "new".

This is a great mmo and every new player can tell, but lets be realistic ,the fun is way 2 far from reach, and although nobody doupts that its certainly there for allot of casuals like myself is unatainable.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#99 - 2015-05-01 00:02:07 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
This thread is a shameful display of hubris.
Please use a thesaurus.
I deployed the exact meaning that I desired to.
Whilst regurgitating a cliché and now you are wagging your tail and expecting praise for what you have done to the carpet.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Rowdy Gates
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2015-05-01 00:15:56 UTC
How strange it is that in a place where new players are unwelcome, they actually perceive that.