Skill Discussions

******** OP.

Then they should buy a character.

I could see removing the skillbooks themselves and just 'buying' the skills directly.

(i.e. you click inject on caldari cruiser - it takes the 45k isk out of your wallet and gives you the skill injected).

~~OR~~

Allow the injecting of skills in which you dont meet the pre-req's for. (just dont allow them to train til they meet the req's)


I'd personally be more down for the 2nd option - It doesnt really alter the game and makes training up more than 1 char a bit easier :)

The obstacle must then be getting the skill book to the new player (i.e. if you buy the skill books for them) or getting the new player to the skill book (the new player buys the book, then travels to where it is). Because obviously if you bring a friend to the game you can effortlessly donate10 million ISK. Or even 100 million and a set of +4 implants.

It might be the case that more low-end skill books should be up for sale in the starting systems, to make life more convenient and friendly for new plaeyrs. But then again, AFAIK there are only 12 starting systems, so it seems reasonable to me that enterprising players could provide this service for noobsk, buying large quantities of outsystem skill books and transporting them to the noob systems, and putting them up for sale at a modest profit. Sell Orders last 90 days, and the timer is renenwed if you make even a 0.01 ISK p/u change to the price.

So if there is a problem, it can be solved by us players. We don't need CCP to fix this, since it's not a game mecanics design problem.

What, the FAILED MMOs you mean?

Yes please, let's make a space WoW version.

Listen. Skill books are important because they make it impossible for one player to be able to do everything. This has a very important effect on the player base and the culture within the game world. One of the primary premises of EVE is that experience is emergent; and diversity is an important prerequisite to emergence. It being impossible for any one person to be able to do everything creates a mutual interdependence between all of the players within the game world. It is the foundation upon which teamwork and rivalry are based whilst also creating a system where a plateau of equally skilled yet laterally different individuals must co-exist in continuously evolving and reactive interplay; r.e. 'emergence', an unscripted experience.

It is a deliberate game design that it would take over 100 years to train every skill in eve because an entire community of completely able individuals would completely destroy the nature of gameplay experienced within EVE. This game is unique because of this, the inescapable imperfection of self within eve, effecting everyone, along with the ultra-high diversity of available options are the fundamentally underlying principles within the game world that creates a system so complex as to be arguably classed 'chaotic' (a system too complex to draw any long term predictions with accuracy).

As with the real world, with Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Anthropology and so on, Chaos will create a perpetually emergent experience to the individual, and hold a complexity to large for the mind to fully grasp. The system needs to be bigger than the individual, to a critical point where it seems to have a life of its own, miraculous movements and unexpected twists, cultural evolutions and paradigm shifts. Eve has this, it has this because it is ultimately diverse and complex. It is like this because of the inability to learn everything.

Skill books/learning length is both deliberate and important.

Think of it like an equation. Each individual is like a factor within that equation. And an alliance or corp is like a sum. Clashes between alliances are the combining of sums, to go to a deeper iteration. Each 'factor' (player) has its own internal equation (all of the skills learned, to what level, the ship being flown, the implants, the action being carried out e.t.c.) that defines the end value of that player. Each corp's 'sum' is the total accumulation of each of the individual's factors, and each interaction between different corps will have a completely different outcome defined by the nature of the totality of all individuals involved, which will continuously change depending on the individuals involved.

Its completely unpredictable; and that's the point.

Other MMO's become boring quickly because it doesn't have this nature to the degree EVE does. There may be some degree of unpredictability but is quickly capped by the limited set of skills/classes, level cap, and most importantly, end game limitation of reaching a maxed out plateau. Everyone involved is already aware of the possibilities capable within the situation and strategy becomes a case of rock paper scissors. This is boring. EVE is different, the polar opposite in-fact as players have to continually evolve, react and adapt to the immediate situation.

You decide which system would provide a more rewarding gameplay experience. It's not rocket science.

TL:DR - Not being able to learn everything creates diversity within the player base leading to an emergent and unscripted gameplay experience.

While I see what you're saying and agree to a certain extent, I too also see that it is important for skills to resemble a physical commodity in EVE. The way this is carried out is through the concept of skill books. Skills can be classed as an asset, and with every asset they have to have a relative worth. That worth can only be balanced within the overall economy through being classed as a physical commodity which enables able individuals to trade units of that product (asset) at a given market value.

This is why skills have to resemble a physical commodity, so they are connected to the supply and demand relevant to that commodity. Having skills non physical, and essentially isolated to each individual on a client ~ server basis detaches the relative worth of that asset from the underlying chain of supply and demand at the heart of a great corner stone of EVE working the way it does.

With a non physically represented skill system, 'worth' would have to be scripted, fixed and arbitrarily placed within the game by the developers, which goes against the nature of eve it's self. Even so, to enable an accurate representation of worth for skills would require a new system of trade, specifically designed for skills alone which is an unnecessary leap considering one already exists (the market).

Occam's Razor dictates that the simplest solution is the correct one, I think things are fine the way they are. If flying to collect skills, such a trivial aspect of the game, considering, is too much for you then maybe EVE isn't for you as this game is 90% logistics anyway, whichever way you look at it.

I did not read the rest of it yet, as this right here invalidates much of your credibility based purely on the fact that I am a judgmental jerk.


It would not take anywhere near 100 years to train everything to 5. It would take at most 22. I think it can be done in 17 and change with good remaps and implants.

I will now however read the rest of the post and comment properly.

The trolls here are worse than in C&P

If you have a question, just shut it and listen to Tippia - seems to be the voice of reason here. Bye