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CCP - End Highsec Incursions

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Author
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#701 - 2015-05-06 16:18:28 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Joe Atei wrote:

At the end of the day, there are ways to stop something you don't like in this game. "Just do it!"


There aren't ways to stop it. Sure you can spend a few billion trying to gank them at a huge loss but why would people waste their time to do that? Unlike Freighters these ships travel in gangs with large tanks, logi support, often boosters and can open fire right back at you. Ganking doesn't work on actual fleets. Ganking is done for profit, something the people of highsec cant seem to grasp. Killing the mom early was done for a while but ended because again, where is the gain for the people ending it early? Its not fun and it doesn't get you anything worth more than keeping it alive. You cant wardec these people as they are protected by NPC corps and you cant attck them in any normal way due to concord protection.

No, when something is out of whack in terms of reward the only viable way to deal with it is to close the abuse, something CCP has been forced to do many times in the past.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#702 - 2015-05-06 16:45:24 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Otso Bakarti wrote:
Please, make others' enterprise less profitable, or at least make mine more so! It's only fair!
Though, I don't do anything remotely like these other people, and never go where they are, the
very thought that they're there making ISK just bugs me. So, CCP, take your million dollar machine
and turn it toward my inclinations and personal preferences. You know the Great Gaming God is on my side!


no its the fact that they are making the most amount of isk while undocked in the game with practically 0 risk. on a system based on risk vs reward its totally not within that system


Incursions dont even come close to wormholes as far as income.



And wormholes don't come close to high sec in terms of safety. And that's the point. Do you think wormhole content and level of income in high sec would be balanced?
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#703 - 2015-05-06 16:50:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Joe Atei wrote:

At the end of the day, there are ways to stop something you don't like in this game. "Just do it!"


There aren't ways to stop it. Sure you can spend a few billion trying to gank them at a huge loss but why would people waste their time to do that? Unlike Freighters these ships travel in gangs with large tanks, logi support, often boosters and can open fire right back at you. Ganking doesn't work on actual fleets. Ganking is done for profit, something the people of highsec cant seem to grasp. Killing the mom early was done for a while but ended because again, where is the gain for the people ending it early? Its not fun and it doesn't get you anything worth more than keeping it alive. You cant wardec these people as they are protected by NPC corps and you cant attck them in any normal way due to concord protection.

No, when something is out of whack in terms of reward the only viable way to deal with it is to close the abuse, something CCP has been forced to do many times in the past.


Since you are not willing to beat them (incursion runners) at their own game (getting their sites so the income goes to you instead of them), then I guess you will have to wait for CCP to deem it important enough to change something about it. Which can be anywhere between the june release and the end of time.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#704 - 2015-05-06 16:50:53 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:

You need ONE carrier one dreadnaught and a couple other ships. Bammo +800m an hour with less effort than incursions.

You could in theory do it without the carrier but it'd require a lot more effort.


One carrier is right. And that one Carrier is in WORMHOLE space not protected by CONCORD, in space where the content can be exhausted (you can't keep wormhole pve going like you can an incursion). If someone is bold enough to take or build a capital ship in unprotected space in order to make money, that is the game working as intended. That's risk/reward done right.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#705 - 2015-05-06 16:54:59 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

You need ONE carrier one dreadnaught and a couple other ships. Bammo +800m an hour with less effort than incursions.

You could in theory do it without the carrier but it'd require a lot more effort.


One carrier is right. And that one Carrier is in WORMHOLE space not protected by CONCORD, in space where the content can be exhausted (you can't keep wormhole pve going like you can an incursion). If someone is bold enough to take or build a capital ship in unprotected space in order to make money, that is the game working as intended. That's risk/reward done right.


Why are you still posting here instead of beating the war drums to motivate people to run them to the very limit to force CCP to do something about something oh so broken? Every 15 minutes wasted here is at least 1 site not getting run.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#706 - 2015-05-06 16:56:35 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Joe Atei wrote:

At the end of the day, there are ways to stop something you don't like in this game. "Just do it!"


There aren't ways to stop it. Sure you can spend a few billion trying to gank them at a huge loss but why would people waste their time to do that? Unlike Freighters these ships travel in gangs with large tanks, logi support, often boosters and can open fire right back at you. Ganking doesn't work on actual fleets. Ganking is done for profit, something the people of highsec cant seem to grasp. Killing the mom early was done for a while but ended because again, where is the gain for the people ending it early? Its not fun and it doesn't get you anything worth more than keeping it alive. You cant wardec these people as they are protected by NPC corps and you cant attck them in any normal way due to concord protection.

No, when something is out of whack in terms of reward the only viable way to deal with it is to close the abuse, something CCP has been forced to do many times in the past.


Since you are not willing to beat them (incursion runners) at their own game (getting their sites so the income goes to you instead of them), then I guess you will have to wait for CCP to deem it important enough to change something about it. Which can be anywhere between the june release and the end of time.


All good, folks like me will make a fortune off the unbalanced things till then lol.

This is the problem with people, they can't be honest enough or objective enough about things to call it like it is. While I don't like a lot about Goon types, at least they are honest about unbalanced things while at the same time they are exploiting them, and I do the same thing which is why I have both a incursion alt and a faction warfare alt. What I no longer have are alts to experience any substantial risk while filling my space wallets with space bucks
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#707 - 2015-05-06 17:03:50 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

You need ONE carrier one dreadnaught and a couple other ships. Bammo +800m an hour with less effort than incursions.

You could in theory do it without the carrier but it'd require a lot more effort.


One carrier is right. And that one Carrier is in WORMHOLE space not protected by CONCORD, in space where the content can be exhausted (you can't keep wormhole pve going like you can an incursion). If someone is bold enough to take or build a capital ship in unprotected space in order to make money, that is the game working as intended. That's risk/reward done right.


Why are you still posting here instead of beating the war drums to motivate people to run them to the very limit to force CCP to do something about something oh so broken? Every 15 minutes wasted here is at least 1 site not getting run.


Because it's not that important. I've done my 'virtual civic duty' in pointing out the gross imbalance (that i'm benefitting from). A gross imbalance that helped thwart CCPs plans during this change(because rather than 'fight for better space', people just left for greener, more high-secy pastures), and will do so again when Fozziesov comes. CCP is literally wasting development time implementing a new Sov system that relies on PVE for defensive bonuses when it's stupid to do pve in null unless you're a renter or some kind of scrub.

CCP changes it, the game gets better. CCP doesn't change it, all good as far as I'm concerned, I adapted to the imbalances in 2011 after the event I just linked. But it is crappy suboptimal game design no matter how much you try to deny it.

Sorry if you can't understand this, but that a 'you' issue, not a 'me' issue.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#708 - 2015-05-06 17:03:59 UTC
I thought EVE was supposed to be harsh.

Let's pretend for a sec that the usual suspects are actually right about high sec being safer than null (demonstrably false). If that were the case, why should the rewards be better in null? It's ******* harsh, remember? You want the freedom to be a douche, you pay the price for it. You work harder and fight over scraps.

The easy money should be in the safer places.

Why do you people have it so backwards in your twisted little minds? There should be no incursions in null and very few in low sec. CCP should move level fives back into high sec as well.

Mr Epeen Cool
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#709 - 2015-05-06 17:11:08 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Joe Atei wrote:

At the end of the day, there are ways to stop something you don't like in this game. "Just do it!"


There aren't ways to stop it. Sure you can spend a few billion trying to gank them at a huge loss but why would people waste their time to do that? Unlike Freighters these ships travel in gangs with large tanks, logi support, often boosters and can open fire right back at you. Ganking doesn't work on actual fleets. Ganking is done for profit, something the people of highsec cant seem to grasp. Killing the mom early was done for a while but ended because again, where is the gain for the people ending it early? Its not fun and it doesn't get you anything worth more than keeping it alive. You cant wardec these people as they are protected by NPC corps and you cant attck them in any normal way due to concord protection.

No, when something is out of whack in terms of reward the only viable way to deal with it is to close the abuse, something CCP has been forced to do many times in the past.


Since you are not willing to beat them (incursion runners) at their own game (getting their sites so the income goes to you instead of them), then I guess you will have to wait for CCP to deem it important enough to change something about it. Which can be anywhere between the june release and the end of time.


All good, folks like me will make a fortune off the unbalanced things till then lol.

This is the problem with people, they can't be honest enough or objective enough about things to call it like it is. While I don't like a lot about Goon types, at least they are honest about unbalanced things while at the same time they are exploiting them, and I do the same thing which is why I have both a incursion alt and a faction warfare alt. What I no longer have are alts to experience any substantial risk while filling my space wallets with space bucks



If you do nothing about it except keep running them without any change, why do you expect CCP to not just let you run them without any change?
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#710 - 2015-05-06 17:21:00 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

You need ONE carrier one dreadnaught and a couple other ships. Bammo +800m an hour with less effort than incursions.

You could in theory do it without the carrier but it'd require a lot more effort.


One carrier is right. And that one Carrier is in WORMHOLE space not protected by CONCORD, in space where the content can be exhausted (you can't keep wormhole pve going like you can an incursion). If someone is bold enough to take or build a capital ship in unprotected space in order to make money, that is the game working as intended. That's risk/reward done right.


Why are you still posting here instead of beating the war drums to motivate people to run them to the very limit to force CCP to do something about something oh so broken? Every 15 minutes wasted here is at least 1 site not getting run.


Because it's not that important. I've done my 'virtual civic duty' in pointing out the gross imbalance (that i'm benefitting from). A gross imbalance that helped thwart CCPs plans during this change(because rather than 'fight for better space', people just left for greener, more high-secy pastures), and will do so again when Fozziesov comes. CCP is literally wasting development time implementing a new Sov system that relies on PVE for defensive bonuses when it's stupid to do pve in null unless you're a renter or some kind of scrub.

CCP changes it, the game gets better. CCP doesn't change it, all good as far as I'm concerned, I adapted to the imbalances in 2011 after the event I just linked. But it is crappy suboptimal game design no matter how much you try to deny it.

Sorry if you can't understand this, but that a 'you' issue, not a 'me' issue.


You keep posting in a 36 pages thread about something not important. I think you need to revise who does not understand what is happening. I'm asking people to prove how broken it is and the only answer I get is a link to a video of 1 dude multi boxing VG sites, you telling me you will keep getting rich off of it and one answer about how the already in place soft cap would prevent it from breaking anything. None of those 3 answer proved anything beside that you are willing to adapt to whatever is the best investment of your time, some people are willing to put effort into multiboxing them and MAYBE it's not that big of a deal because there are caps on it.

If that's the best proof people can muster, it's no wonder CCP don't nerf such imbalance faster...
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#711 - 2015-05-06 17:32:14 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Level 4s should've been moved to Lowsec... back in 2009! I used to make dank ISK back in 2008, and returnded to EvE recently and it is still (presumably / a lot has changed with respect to LP store wares) the same dank ISK that is available through missioning. Myself, liking to have a lotta FUN, I lived for a few months in Lowsec, doing Combat exploration in a Tengu - The income is closer to 15 mil per hour, than anything you read about the subject, for you could go for weeks on end without a decent Deadspace/BPC drop. P

Train went choo-choo, and instead they've added more ISK faucets to Highsec, albeit a very interesting one at first.

At least the ISBotter problem is being partially handled in this regard, because otherwise it would've been the end of EvE further down the line.

/bitter
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#712 - 2015-05-06 17:35:28 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
I thought EVE was supposed to be harsh.

Let's pretend for a sec that the usual suspects are actually right about high sec being safer than null (demonstrably false). If that were the case, why should the rewards be better in null? It's ******* harsh, remember? You want the freedom to be a douche, you pay the price for it. You work harder and fight over scraps.

The easy money should be in the safer places.

Why do you people have it so backwards in your twisted little minds? There should be no incursions in null and very few in low sec. CCP should move level fives back into high sec as well.

Mr Epeen Cool


i usually have to agree with what you say as you usually talk sense but i dont know what happened here. why put effort in to fight over scraps your idea just kills eve

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#713 - 2015-05-06 17:41:01 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
I thought EVE was supposed to be harsh.

Let's pretend for a sec that the usual suspects are actually right about high sec being safer than null (demonstrably false). If that were the case, why should the rewards be better in null? It's ******* harsh, remember? You want the freedom to be a douche, you pay the price for it. You work harder and fight over scraps.

The easy money should be in the safer places.

Why do you people have it so backwards in your twisted little minds? There should be no incursions in null and very few in low sec. CCP should move level fives back into high sec as well.

Mr Epeen Cool


i usually have to agree with what you say as you usually talk sense but i dont know what happened here. why put effort in to fight over scraps your idea just kills eve


And yet, people are willing to "play" hours in TiDi for this "crap" space.

I'm not even gonna try to make it out to be better than high-sec but it sure has enough value for people to endure this in the name of a space flag...
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#714 - 2015-05-06 17:48:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaldi Tsukaya
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
I thought EVE was supposed to be harsh.

Let's pretend for a sec that the usual suspects are actually right about high sec being safer than null (demonstrably false). If that were the case, why should the rewards be better in null? It's ******* harsh, remember? You want the freedom to be a douche, you pay the price for it. You work harder and fight over scraps.

The easy money should be in the safer places.

Why do you people have it so backwards in your twisted little minds? There should be no incursions in null and very few in low sec. CCP should move level fives back into high sec as well.

Mr Epeen Cool


i usually have to agree with what you say as you usually talk sense but i dont know what happened here. why put effort in to fight over scraps your idea just kills eve


And yet, people are willing to "play" hours in TiDi for this "crap" space.

I'm not even gonna try to make it out to be better than high-sec but it sure has enough value for people to endure this in the name of a space flag...


People went to Antarctica to plant their flag! Never underestimate the desire of people to suffer to extremes to say "mine", or "I was there first".

edit: what did Kennedy say?
“We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard."
Joe Atei
Aes Dei Asher
#715 - 2015-05-06 18:38:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Atei
baltec1 wrote:
Stuff


I still don't see how the reward is out of whack. It took a few months for people to become proficient at incursions, and even then, that's not the majority of runners. I'm sure there are plenty of people who aren't pushing 200 mil a hour because it takes a team of people who actually know what they're doing to even get that accomplished on an individual level. If anything, it's spot on. Incentive enough to make loners group up, but not enough to get everyone on board. After all, someone else earlier said that like a crushingly small percentage of players are actually benefiting from it to its maximum. Nerfing something because a small percentage of players somehow managed to succeed in unforeseen circumstances is rude and selfish. Because while they will be hurt by the nerf, people who weren't running them at the same efficiency, for whatever reasons, will be hurt more and there are a lot more people that operate at non-optimal efficiency than there are. I know I can make a lot more isk/hr out in null or wh space, but I only ever go out to these places for visits. Never to stay. Because at the end of the day, I actually gain less because of people who are bloodthirsty. I don't come on the forums whining to CCP that they should make null safer. I just learn to either deal with it or live with it. Because at the end of the day, it's not a big deal.

I feel like incursions aren't a big deal. There is risk, the problem is people know how to get around it now. In the beginning people were dying left and right, but that's going to be the nature of PvE. Never mind the fact that entry to 200 million isk/hr is protected by a barrier that requires some experience playing the game, isk, and skill points. For people to profit from incursions the way an elite group can requires an investment in those three things. More importantly, it requires a competent fleet. Just because the game is easy for some doesn't mean it is for the majority. Balance should be made around the majority and not as a personal attack to a successful minority. This is why I stated that this entire topic stinks with an agenda.

It really isn't that big of a deal and you admitted there are ways to disrupt it. It's just not worth the effort. So, in turn, you go to CCP. A lot of things CCP has changed in the past was arguably wrong because the changes were at the request of people arguing over what is and isn't broken. There definitely have been changes that were needed, but there have also been a lot due to knee jerk reactions based on forum complaints. You should know what I mean.

Don't make the game less enjoyable for others because you don't like it man. And for what it's worth, I don't run incursions but I do read up on them. Not the same thing obviously, but if there was a true imbalance, I would have felt it by now surely. Things are more affordable than ever now and the only thing that matters in its inflation is plex. Because that's something a minority can influence through obscene income that can affect other people, but the markets have already stabilized. At the end of the day, there are only so many uses for them and only so many ships an individual will purchase. After their wants have been fulfilled, their influence on the markets drops significantly. But that's assuming incursions are 'obscene' in the first place. I think they're spot on. You guys out in null could have cease-fires where you get together and do incursions, but don't because of reasons. Regardless of whatever those reasons may be, that doesn't give you the right to complain about people who do it in High-sec to counter the risk that's only there because of other capsuleers.

Yet, at the same time, there are plenty of people who part-take in risk-less predatory actions and receive great bounties for it. And one or two kills can yield more isk than any individual incursion runner will earn in a week. But here we are, talking about how a group of competent pilots had to make a large initial investment and cooperate together to turn incursions into something profitable. Blink
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#716 - 2015-05-06 19:01:00 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
I thought EVE was supposed to be harsh.

Let's pretend for a sec that the usual suspects are actually right about high sec being safer than null (demonstrably false).


ok, I know you as someone with a wrid way of thinking, even someone who doesn't have a close relationship with the abilty to tell the truth even.

But I never knew you as stupid. You know for a fact you can't demonstrate that. I challenge you to do so right here and right now.


Quote:

If that were the case, why should the rewards be better in null? It's ******* harsh, remember? You want the freedom to be a douche, you pay the price for it. You work harder and fight over scraps.

The easy money should be in the safer places.



There it is. Prejudice. The idea that someone, people who play outside high sec are somehow 'douches' for shooting at each other in a video game that has lots and lots of guns in it. All prejudice is based on an outlandish worldview, and this one is yours.

The problem with such bias is that it warps perception. People who know what they are doing aren't 'fighting over scraps'. We are in high sec running incursions, in low sec blitzing lvl 5s in 2 minutes with carrier, or in FW spamming missions in bombers.

We're also on these forums telling you (the people uninterested in good game design) that we are doing this things. These things instead of doing what, in a better environment, we would be doing: risking expensive ships in null to make isk, which in turn would create content for others in null AND create plenty of space in high sec pve for high sec people who want that.

But hey, keep with the short sighted defense of a status quo you don't understand as you are probably not a PVE player anyways. I'm sure our wallets will continue to think you.

Quote:

Why do you people have it so backwards in your twisted little minds? There should be no incursions in null and very few in low sec. CCP should move level fives back into high sec as well.

Mr Epeen Cool


lvl 5s in high sec was a BUG. Null incursions are useless and low ones only slightly less so. None of that is the point.

The point is that CCP has never come out and said "we don't believe in the concept of high risk equals higher reward anymore". Until they do, many of us will advocate for a return to a proper balance.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#717 - 2015-05-06 19:02:56 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
I thought EVE was supposed to be harsh.

Let's pretend for a sec that the usual suspects are actually right about high sec being safer than null (demonstrably false). If that were the case, why should the rewards be better in null? It's ******* harsh, remember? You want the freedom to be a douche, you pay the price for it. You work harder and fight over scraps.

The easy money should be in the safer places.

Why do you people have it so backwards in your twisted little minds? There should be no incursions in null and very few in low sec. CCP should move level fives back into high sec as well.

Mr Epeen Cool


i usually have to agree with what you say as you usually talk sense but i dont know what happened here. why put effort in to fight over scraps your idea just kills eve


And yet, people are willing to "play" hours in TiDi for this "crap" space.

I'm not even gonna try to make it out to be better than high-sec but it sure has enough value for people to endure this in the name of a space flag...


Yes, there is value in gaining space to rent to others while you go about the real business elsewhere lol. People fighting in tidi aren't doing so for isk, they are doing so because they are playing a video game and taking space from others is fun.

You can rationalize all you want, but you're smarter than this Frosty.
Joe Atei
Aes Dei Asher
#718 - 2015-05-06 19:14:57 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

The point is that CCP has never come out and said "we don't believe in the concept of high risk equals higher reward anymore". Until they do, many of us will advocate for a return to a proper balance.

Fair enough.

Maybe it's my capitalistic mind, but I view the game differently from that because of past changes CCP has already made. Words mean nothing to me. Actions is what matter, and CCP, through actions, have demonstrated that they do not believe in that concept.

That's my view on the subject. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who views it like that too. Shoot, I'd go out and say a lot of people hold a similar view and don't even realize it.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#719 - 2015-05-06 19:15:37 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Joe Atei wrote:

At the end of the day, there are ways to stop something you don't like in this game. "Just do it!"


There aren't ways to stop it. Sure you can spend a few billion trying to gank them at a huge loss but why would people waste their time to do that? Unlike Freighters these ships travel in gangs with large tanks, logi support, often boosters and can open fire right back at you. Ganking doesn't work on actual fleets. Ganking is done for profit, something the people of highsec cant seem to grasp. Killing the mom early was done for a while but ended because again, where is the gain for the people ending it early? Its not fun and it doesn't get you anything worth more than keeping it alive. You cant wardec these people as they are protected by NPC corps and you cant attck them in any normal way due to concord protection.

No, when something is out of whack in terms of reward the only viable way to deal with it is to close the abuse, something CCP has been forced to do many times in the past.


Since you are not willing to beat them (incursion runners) at their own game (getting their sites so the income goes to you instead of them), then I guess you will have to wait for CCP to deem it important enough to change something about it. Which can be anywhere between the june release and the end of time.


All good, folks like me will make a fortune off the unbalanced things till then lol.

This is the problem with people, they can't be honest enough or objective enough about things to call it like it is. While I don't like a lot about Goon types, at least they are honest about unbalanced things while at the same time they are exploiting them, and I do the same thing which is why I have both a incursion alt and a faction warfare alt. What I no longer have are alts to experience any substantial risk while filling my space wallets with space bucks



If you do nothing about it except keep running them without any change, why do you expect CCP to not just let you run them without any change?


I don't expect anyone to do anything. I'm pointing out a game altering imbalance (one anyone could see for themselves if they took the time to). I'm good either way , but as a video game player I could still wish for better game design. And fixes (not necessarily nerfs or buffs) would make lots of things work better.

What distresses me is seeing something in game/on forums that happens all the time in real life; people are so short sighted that 'not so great' things persist (then later on they have the nerve to complain about things that they were too short sighted to fix in the past lol).


Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#720 - 2015-05-06 19:24:11 UTC
Joe Atei wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

The point is that CCP has never come out and said "we don't believe in the concept of high risk equals higher reward anymore". Until they do, many of us will advocate for a return to a proper balance.

Fair enough.

Maybe it's my capitalistic mind, but I view the game differently from that because of past changes CCP has already made. Words mean nothing to me. Actions is what matter, and CCP, through actions, have demonstrated that they do not believe in that concept.

That's my view on the subject. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who views it like that too. Shoot, I'd go out and say a lot of people hold a similar view and don't even realize it.


If they don't believe in the concept anymore, why are the spending actual money (in the form of actual development time) doing things outside of high sec? Why are there no lvl 5s, or DED 10/10s, or wormhole sites in high sec? Why are there only 2 "pirate" faction connected LP stores in high sec (Thukker and SOE) instead of all of them? Why do low and null incursions theoretically pay more.

And why aren't you considering the fact that, rather than intentionally doing an about face on risk/reward/ CCP simply isn't verey good at PVE and made some balancing mistakes? They are the exact same people who brought up Dominion Sov, Super Capitals and the current Ishtar.

If a pvp focused company can get pvp balance so incredibly Fubar'd as the above, how can you have such extreme confidence in their PVE decisions lol?