These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Battlecruisers: Projection Role Bonus

Author
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#241 - 2015-06-13 13:44:26 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Portiko wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
For comparison, my t1 phoon gets anywhere from 87k-100k depending on how much tank/gank i feel like adding. Yea some BS will surpass those numbers with full tank fits, but wont be anymore close to the application BCs can get against cruisers.

Yeah, the Typhoon is actually my idea of what a CBC should be, despite it being a BS. Well, I say despite it being a BS but, the OCD in me insists a CBC should be a BS anyway, which it kinda should because that's what BCs actually are.


If thats the case it would be simpler to buff BS EHP to make the line between BC/BS more distinctive. See James Baboli's thread about his ideas on how to improve BS.


The 3200mm plates, k.

LSE Shield cruisers are approaching retardo levels currently.

The oversized buffer mods I thunk up are heavy enough that even t3s fit almost entirely for PG cannot make effective use of them. I made fairly sure of that, and on purpose too.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#242 - 2015-06-13 15:00:08 UTC
I would like to see all combat BC and thier TECH II EQ get a role bonus to warp speed (bring it in line with crusiers) and a role bonus to mjd recharge time...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#243 - 2015-06-13 15:23:09 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
I would like to see all combat BC and thier TECH II EQ get a role bonus to warp speed (bring it in line with crusiers) and a role bonus to mjd recharge time...


So.. you cant handle being .3 AU slower than a cruiser? That would be a silly role bonus to make up .3AU. Not to mention CCP purposely reduced warp speed on BC/BS. Now you want them to buff it back with a role bonus?

Slap a hyperspatial rig on it, now youre faster than a cruiser. MJD bonus should fall to CS, like mjd bonus is on marauders.
Dregalis DeGraiden
Doomheim
#244 - 2015-06-15 11:50:06 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
I would like to see all combat BC and thier TECH II EQ get a role bonus to warp speed (bring it in line with crusiers) and a role bonus to mjd recharge time...


So.. you cant handle being .3 AU slower than a cruiser? That would be a silly role bonus to make up .3AU. Not to mention CCP purposely reduced warp speed on BC/BS. Now you want them to buff it back with a role bonus?

Slap a hyperspatial rig on it, now youre faster than a cruiser. MJD bonus should fall to CS, like mjd bonus is on marauders.


I second this, there is no reason at all for the CSs to not get a 70% Cooldown Reactivation Reduction role bonus. I mean these are T2 BC's, why in hell do they only have ONE role bonus as their T1 BC counters.

CCP needs to change this soon. They seem to pay no attention to these ships for some reason.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#245 - 2015-06-15 12:48:02 UTC
Bc's need something. I look at the Bc hulls in my hangar and see literally 0 reasons to choose them over the other ships in there. Except for the talos as a ganker and tornado as an alpha ganker, the others are just too expensive with too little benefit over a cheap t1 cruiser or too ineffective against anything else. If this makes Bc's a viable choice in PVP again then +1 from me. That or bonus them all to ewar and let the chaos begin lol

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#246 - 2015-06-15 17:25:56 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Bc's need something. I look at the Bc hulls in my hangar and see literally 0 reasons to choose them over the other ships in there. Except for the talos as a ganker and tornado as an alpha ganker, the others are just too expensive with too little benefit over a cheap t1 cruiser or too ineffective against anything else. If this makes Bc's a viable choice in PVP again then +1 from me. That or bonus them all to ewar and let the chaos begin lol

WTB web ranged bonused cyclone.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#247 - 2015-06-15 17:43:41 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Bc's need something. I look at the Bc hulls in my hangar and see literally 0 reasons to choose them over the other ships in there. Except for the talos as a ganker and tornado as an alpha ganker, the others are just too expensive with too little benefit over a cheap t1 cruiser or too ineffective against anything else. If this makes Bc's a viable choice in PVP again then +1 from me. That or bonus them all to ewar and let the chaos begin lol


There is also the token oracle for bashes...
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#248 - 2015-06-15 21:07:33 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Bc's need something. I look at the Bc hulls in my hangar and see literally 0 reasons to choose them over the other ships in there. Except for the talos as a ganker and tornado as an alpha ganker, the others are just too expensive with too little benefit over a cheap t1 cruiser or too ineffective against anything else. If this makes Bc's a viable choice in PVP again then +1 from me. That or bonus them all to ewar and let the chaos begin lol


There is also the token oracle for bashes...


Can I bring a drake?

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#249 - 2015-06-17 08:49:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
James Baboli wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Portiko wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
For comparison, my t1 phoon gets anywhere from 87k-100k depending on how much tank/gank i feel like adding. Yea some BS will surpass those numbers with full tank fits, but wont be anymore close to the application BCs can get against cruisers.

Yeah, the Typhoon is actually my idea of what a CBC should be, despite it being a BS. Well, I say despite it being a BS but, the OCD in me insists a CBC should be a BS anyway, which it kinda should because that's what BCs actually are.


If thats the case it would be simpler to buff BS EHP to make the line between BC/BS more distinctive. See James Baboli's thread about his ideas on how to improve BS.


The 3200mm plates, k.

LSE Shield cruisers are approaching retardo levels currently.

The oversized buffer mods I thunk up are heavy enough that even t3s fit almost entirely for PG cannot make effective use of them. I made fairly sure of that, and on purpose too.


And that is how it must be.

Seeing as the LSEs and 1600mms have been fit for cruisers since time immemorial and changing this would require quite a bit of work, XL plates are the only solution now.

That, or review the Tech 2 resist profiles on T3 Cruisers.

Or both.

P.S. Free RF LSEs for all! ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ

Thanks, Team Minmatar
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#250 - 2015-06-17 12:18:16 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:


Seeing as the LSEs and 1600mms have been fit for cruisers since time immemorial and changing this would require quite a bit of work, XL plates are the only solution now.


And then you will face BS with not enough PG to fit the new plate/extenders or the fitting one all of them will have to be increased. Hell some BS can't even fit all guns without PG mods...
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#251 - 2015-06-17 12:26:43 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:


Seeing as the LSEs and 1600mms have been fit for cruisers since time immemorial and changing this would require quite a bit of work, XL plates are the only solution now.


And then you will face BS with not enough PG to fit the new plate/extenders or the fitting one all of them will have to be increased. Hell some BS can't even fit all guns without PG mods...

Some guns weren't designed to be fit without a fitting mod.... looking at you arty and 425's.... probably tachyon's as well.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#252 - 2015-06-17 12:44:19 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:


Seeing as the LSEs and 1600mms have been fit for cruisers since time immemorial and changing this would require quite a bit of work, XL plates are the only solution now.


And then you will face BS with not enough PG to fit the new plate/extenders or the fitting one all of them will have to be increased. Hell some BS can't even fit all guns without PG mods...

Some guns weren't designed to be fit without a fitting mod.... looking at you arty and 425's.... probably tachyon's as well.


How do I fit larger plate/extenders on top of those if my "balanced" EHP is based on the fact those buffer mod are bigger than what cruisers can fit?
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#253 - 2015-06-17 12:52:34 UTC
Try that post again, in sensible English and reading comprehension this time.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#254 - 2015-06-17 14:01:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
That 1k MW on a battleship is nothing, compared to a cruiser, where it is everything. Smile

Tachyons & 1400mms have always required RCUs at the very least - Imagine how we played without ACR rigs. Big smile

In anticipation of Electron Protei, I agree with Mr Baboli's example - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5739413#post5739413

Such plates/extenders would free up precious slots for TE/TCs, nanus or even further tank via resist mods.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#255 - 2015-06-17 14:27:10 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:


Seeing as the LSEs and 1600mms have been fit for cruisers since time immemorial and changing this would require quite a bit of work, XL plates are the only solution now.


And then you will face BS with not enough PG to fit the new plate/extenders or the fitting one all of them will have to be increased. Hell some BS can't even fit all guns without PG mods...

Some guns weren't designed to be fit without a fitting mod.... looking at you arty and 425's.... probably tachyon's as well.

I'm not seeing how 425mm rails are that hard to fit. Unless you want double extender or plate + MWD, they fit fine with good skills and no rigs to make their PG increase.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#256 - 2015-06-17 15:49:07 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:


Seeing as the LSEs and 1600mms have been fit for cruisers since time immemorial and changing this would require quite a bit of work, XL plates are the only solution now.


And then you will face BS with not enough PG to fit the new plate/extenders or the fitting one all of them will have to be increased. Hell some BS can't even fit all guns without PG mods...

Some guns weren't designed to be fit without a fitting mod.... looking at you arty and 425's.... probably tachyon's as well.

I'm not seeing how 425mm rails are that hard to fit. Unless you want double extender or plate + MWD, they fit fine with good skills and no rigs to make their PG increase.


IIRC 7 425's on a 'thron requires a cpu mod and was balanced to. Could be wrong.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#257 - 2015-06-17 16:31:35 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:


Seeing as the LSEs and 1600mms have been fit for cruisers since time immemorial and changing this would require quite a bit of work, XL plates are the only solution now.


And then you will face BS with not enough PG to fit the new plate/extenders or the fitting one all of them will have to be increased. Hell some BS can't even fit all guns without PG mods...

Some guns weren't designed to be fit without a fitting mod.... looking at you arty and 425's.... probably tachyon's as well.

I'm not seeing how 425mm rails are that hard to fit. Unless you want double extender or plate + MWD, they fit fine with good skills and no rigs to make their PG increase.


IIRC 7 425's on a 'thron requires a cpu mod and was balanced to. Could be wrong.


From what im seeing 425s use 51% of your CPU and 75% of your grid on a mega with no other mods. Quite a bit of room leftover for tank/mjd with a fitting mod or using meta mods.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#258 - 2015-06-17 17:11:17 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Try that post again, in sensible English and reading comprehension this time.


I'll give it another shot.

Many battleship hardly have enough fitting room to put 1600 without ACR/RCU. If this is already required, where am I supposed to find the added PWG a 3200 plate would obviously need?

Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#259 - 2015-06-17 17:46:52 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Try that post again, in sensible English and reading comprehension this time.


I'll give it another shot.

Many battleship hardly have enough fitting room to put 1600 without ACR/RCU. If this is already required, where am I supposed to find the added PWG a 3200 plate would obviously need?



Sniper/long range fits are not supposed to fit heavy tank, much less something so crazy as a 3200 plate. 3200 plate is an absurd idea anyway, given the thread is about battle cruisers.


@stitch: what does that cpu consumption increase to with the rest of the fit? Tracking comps, mag stabs, mwd/mjd, etc? Not with my computer right now so idk. IIRC, once the rest the fit is on there it gets pretty tight.


Irregardless, why are we discussing battleship fitting and giant plates over battle cruisers and projection? If bc's need more tank than a more appropriate fix Is a class wide buff to dominant tank hp, armor or shield, and a slight increase to base speed. Then put that role bonus of increased optimal or fall off or w/e into the hull, giving like, 3 free tracking enhancers. 3200 plates hardly fix bc's.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#260 - 2015-06-17 19:41:07 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Try that post again, in sensible English and reading comprehension this time.


I'll give it another shot.

Many battleship hardly have enough fitting room to put 1600 without ACR/RCU. If this is already required, where am I supposed to find the added PWG a 3200 plate would obviously need?



Sniper/long range fits are not supposed to fit heavy tank, much less something so crazy as a 3200 plate. 3200 plate is an absurd idea anyway, given the thread is about battle cruisers.


@stitch: what does that cpu consumption increase to with the rest of the fit? Tracking comps, mag stabs, mwd/mjd, etc? Not with my computer right now so idk. IIRC, once the rest the fit is on there it gets pretty tight.


Irregardless, why are we discussing battleship fitting and giant plates over battle cruisers and projection? If bc's need more tank than a more appropriate fix Is a class wide buff to dominant tank hp, armor or shield, and a slight increase to base speed. Then put that role bonus of increased optimal or fall off or w/e into the hull, giving like, 3 free tracking enhancers. 3200 plates hardly fix bc's.


Its not too bad tbh even with a full fit. Can make 136k EHP mega with MJD, 2 tcs, 2 magstabs and meta dcu with triple plate and enams. It does need one cpu rig. Honestly though, it could probably be tweaked to not need it. Youre off by 2% or so, nothing a cheap implant couldnt resolve.

With 3 1600s, that would equal 1 3200+1600 in comparable fitting. So a 3200 is not really absurd, but would save me a low for something else.

For comparisons sake.. fitting 1400s on a t1 pest uses 96% of its grid, with no other mod. You cant fit a respectable fleet armor tank on it without 1-2 grid mods, which then means utility highs are unfitted/useless and the tank is already turding it up before it undocks. You can fit a shield tank though with dual LSE/invuln for 100k EHP. Still pretty bad though.

I suppose BS discussion is better suited elsewhere, BUT, it has been mentioned that BS EHP can in some cases be comparable to BC EHP levels. If BS could have access to mods that increase tank without stacking up double plates/LSEs to do better, that would save some slots to make them more capable at their role.