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How do we increase PvP in C5 and C6?

First post
Author
Accountant O'Death
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2015-04-27 01:04:56 UTC
I know I know, let's make a corp called "Shoot me, Don't evict me" and then put all of our alts in it. When we need pew we can just go shoot each others alts, problem solved....
Rater Chanlin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2015-04-27 02:28:48 UTC
Siginek wrote:
Raquel Saissore wrote:
Siginek wrote:
On suggestion of lazerhawks there is created topic about lack of pvp in wormhole and yet, they and their "friends" are main reason of this problem, because they are responsible of end for most groups that could/would provide actual pvp ... and when some pvp comes they just blob everyone ... Right? ... i wonder why cant you find any pvp in high-class wormholes


Salty.

Maybe don't roll c6 when you know there is a huge op happening, what did you expect to happen, us have the fleet ignore you? If you guys had any logic you would have ignored the connection and waited for us to roll it.

As for linking exceptional loses like that doesn't fool anyone that knows what's actually going on in high class wormholes.


Yeah ... right ... eviction of another active WH corp ... im sure that will help to improve pvp life in high-class wormholes ...


Plenty of active corps out there who just shoot red crosses all day. The argument for not evicting someone is like a game preserve. You just keep them there for your farming convenience. If someone gets more content for themselves out of evicting someone then go ahead and do it. The game isn't about providing content for other people, it is about providing content for you. You can keep the cow to milk it or slaughter the cow.
Peter Moonlight
Suddenly Carebears
#143 - 2015-04-27 02:43:19 UTC
How to fix wh pvp?
Simply, make yourself content, and CCP make grinding structures less grinding.
https://zkillboard.com/br/37385/
http://puu.sh/hsdDw/45d9cc70fe.jpg

gf
fido goran
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2015-04-27 02:47:00 UTC
Still selectively linking things.

http://gyazo.com/cdd16eefe048db6ad9f5c4b181c29f5b

Check numbers and efficiency.
Peter Moonlight
Suddenly Carebears
#145 - 2015-04-27 02:51:24 UTC
fido goran wrote:
Still selectively linking things.

http://gyazo.com/cdd16eefe048db6ad9f5c4b181c29f5b

Check numbers and efficiency.

See capital advantage, bhaalgorns,geddons, +pos on their side and infinite amount of reships and they were reshipping.

fido goran wrote:
Still selectively linking things.
Riiight
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#146 - 2015-04-27 03:02:28 UTC
see amount involved

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Luft Reich
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#147 - 2015-04-27 03:09:04 UTC
Both KB Links are incomplete.

Lost 17 Billion in less than 5 minutes, had a lot of fun.

ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post

fido goran
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2015-04-27 03:31:53 UTC  |  Edited by: fido goran
Peter Moonlight wrote:
fido goran wrote:
Still selectively linking things.

http://gyazo.com/cdd16eefe048db6ad9f5c4b181c29f5b

Check numbers and efficiency.

See capital advantage, bhaalgorns,geddons, +pos on their side and infinite amount of reships and they were reshipping.

fido goran wrote:
Still selectively linking things.
Riiight

You had 29 legions vs their 5 bhaals/3 geddons. No doubt some of your legions weren't neut fit, but come on.
Their 2 tengu's and 1 scorpion vs your 10 tengu's (which I'm willing to bet most/all were ecm)
10 of your guardians, plus 2 archons, vs 5 archons + 1 nid.

Yes, they had the capital advantage, but you invaded their home hole, please don't insult your corp by being this stupid.

You were podding them out as fast as you could, so your reshipping point is also dumb. Sure, some of them might have made it back to a pos to reship, but if you had your way, they wouldn't have.
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#149 - 2015-04-27 03:42:19 UTC
I haven't read through the whole thread yet, but I want to put down a thought that's been in my mind for a bit.

Namely ragerolling. I'm going to suggest that this is hurting PvP in W space.

I've never been a fan of ragerolling because while yes, you do see more system faster than scanning the whole chain out and thus increase the likelyhood you'll find someone active, you're hurting the inverse. You're limiting the places that someone else can merge their chain into yours down to your home system and the static while it's open.

A pair of C5>C5 groups ragerolling have a 3 in 512 chance of meeting per rageroll. You into their home, them into your home, you both into the same static.

Yes scanning the whole chain down to K space takes more time, but you're increasing the likelihood of an encounter at every system you add in. Exchanging number of dice rolls for higher probability.

Now it's been a while since I've hung out with a C5 group so I don't know if that's the way you guys are still finding PvP mainly but if it is, I'm suggesting before we all start screaming CCPlease to the heavens, for all of May, we all give ragerolling up, see if it feels like we're getting more PvP or not. If you're at the end of the chain and there's no new sigs to explore on the way back, sure roll it, but try to keep it open, lets see what comes from it.
Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#150 - 2015-04-27 04:02:04 UTC
corbexx wrote:
Firstly I'm still of the opinion that better pve and increasing getting people in to space is the way to increase pvp. The lower class wormholes have all done better since the pve changes along with dual statics of C4.

...

The biggest issue I see with pvp in C5 and C6 is that its a player driven issue, not mechanics. Atleast to me, the biggest issue is all the grouping up, which then leads to a vicious circle. Oh they teamed up, we wont fight them, their bound to have friends this time again. etc etc

I've spoke to a couple people who are much better at player behaviour and theyall agree this is incrediby hard to change, if its even possible at all.

What I'd like is suggestions on how we could maybe increase pvp in the higher class wormholes.

What we need are more people, or to be specific more denisty, but I think that dedicated farming corps are becoming too prevalent already and this might make it worse. I wish I had a good idea for how to improve it.

I think two things killed C5/6 PVP: 1) Odyssey scanning easy-peasy appearance of new wormholes, and 2) the Hyperion mass/jump changes. I know it won't surprise you to hear me say either, Corbexx. :) I think both of these changes should be reversed.
Hidden Fremen wrote:
Rewarding PvP active corps (harder to evict). Some Incursion-esque home system bonus.
No. If you want these, get a wormhole with an effect. Pulsars in particular, given the wormhole armor meta, increase the turtle factor. Done.

Hidden Fremen wrote:
ArrowMass:spawn range when jumping wormholes kills small corp PvP tactics. True. Increases non-consensual PvP, but decreases consensual.
ArrowReducing the number of wormholes. This would obviously increase encounters between players.
Hell yes. Reverse mass/spawn, see above. Frankly it barely makes a difference with the nonconsensual. You want to address that, re-nerf the system scanner (as noted above).
On the assumption that he means he means number of wormhole systems, I agree. I think for the population we have, there are simply too many systems. I would support a significant reduction in the number of wormhole systems, which I know is also controversial. More density is good for fights. If he means less actual wormholes (i.e. connections) I think the exact opposite is true - more holes = more traffic.

Hidden Fremen wrote:
Getting podded into k-space and not in your WH home makes people more risk-averse. Controversial.
I completely disagree. This is a critical piece of the wormhole meta that makes it different than other places. It is a key tactical consideration that makes wormhole play unique and should be completely off the table. On the flipside, I think we desperately need a way to deal with implant removal, or clone jumps, WITHIN a hole to enable cheaper clones for specific needs. But only internal to the system, not out of it.

Hidden Fremen wrote:
Give wormholes stargate treatment in that they appear on overview; no scanning needed. VERY controversial.
No, no, and hell no. Go to nullsec if you want that. I advocate the opposite - make them invisible again until they are actually scanned by someone.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary

Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#151 - 2015-04-27 04:04:16 UTC
Garr Khan wrote:
Wormhole space, but ESPECIALLY C5/C6 space needs more participation by major nullsec entities wishing to establish Wormhole groups; those are the guys who will really bring the pew without the jew (as we see with so many of the stagnant 'major WH corps' littering high-class wormholes these days).


Most hilariously terrible idea I've heard all day.

Even if Corbexx is a Goon.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary

Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#152 - 2015-04-27 04:21:38 UTC
fido goran wrote:
Peter Moonlight wrote:
fido goran wrote:
Still selectively linking things.

http://gyazo.com/cdd16eefe048db6ad9f5c4b181c29f5b

Check numbers and efficiency.

See capital advantage, bhaalgorns,geddons, +pos on their side and infinite amount of reships and they were reshipping.

fido goran wrote:
Still selectively linking things.
Riiight

Yes, they had the capital advantage, but you invaded their home hole, please don't insult your corp by being this stupid.


he can't help it ;v;

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#153 - 2015-04-27 04:26:41 UTC
Bleedingthrough wrote:
It is the same old story that has been told in so many different ways already and it boils down to: capital escalations.

For me they are **** because they encourage a playstyle I dislike and think is harmful for PvP.


I completely disagree. Capital escalations force people to bring capital ships out of their POS.

This is GOOD for PVP. It is what brings people out with everything they have, the chance at capital ganks.

This is also why the mass/jump idea was stupid.

We need people to have reasons to risk capitals so that we can eat their tasty killmails.

Now, if you want to find a way to make them used out the static, fine. But getting rid all together is a bad idea IMO.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary

Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#154 - 2015-04-27 04:35:16 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
But maybe creating a thunderdome using shattered space is needed. I would even go as far as to say as to link them all together. Find a shattered hole. That shattered links to other shattered holes, which link to other shattered holes. So basically you find one shattered. You find them all.

You create the mega wspace highway there. Movements easier, there is a definitive roaming area other than kspace.

You need to make shattered space worth the travel. Having a shattered highway would help.


I'm not entirely sure, but at first blush I don't hate this idea.

That's unusual for this thread so far, and thus noteworthy.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary

Iyokus Patrouette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2015-04-27 04:38:57 UTC
Someone said something about reducing the number of moons in the C5/C6 space. possibly not the worst idea i have heard so far. it helps limit the numbers those holes can sustain. forcing people to spread out more.

Even if the corps just occupy a second wormhole, the chances of both entrances being reasonably close to each other are low, This might help limit peoples fear of the 'blob'

Even still i don't know how i feel about any of the ideas. To much of the problem is cultural and not mechanics.

Hell depending on how the POS changes end up working this whole problem might solve itself. (or become irrelevant as people evac wormhole life)

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#156 - 2015-04-27 04:39:11 UTC
Jay Joringer wrote:
I honestly cannot believe that no one has mentioned some kind of device or structure to stabilize Wormholes yet.


First response in the thread was "MOAR NULLSEC DUDES".

Same diff.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary

Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#157 - 2015-04-27 04:53:51 UTC
fido goran wrote:
Reduce the amount of moons in high class WH's.

There will be a hard limit of capitals that can be stored unpiloted in WH's, due to the 1 tower per moon, and limited ship storage space per moon thing.

This has the knock on effect of even the largest 300 man alliance only has a limited amount of capitals for use in home defense (or more if they decide to commit holding characters to log off in spares) *hopefully* encouraging more all in fleets, even against established holes.

It may also encourage the breaking up of larger corps/alliances into more holes/other corps, due to space issues in their home.


First actual creative, smart approach I've seen in this thread.

Welcome back Fido.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary

Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#158 - 2015-04-27 04:58:16 UTC
Kellie Dusette wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:
Kellie Dusette wrote:
Help They GotMyMoney wrote:
Post with you're main.

*your.


you're*

Kellie explain for you, little body, big heart.

"Jester, your face!"

"Jester, you're an ass!"

You can for see now this one make a different?

Even Kellie for know of this, and Kellie for struggle very many much with a talk. Fly a Buzzard.



This may help.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary

BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#159 - 2015-04-27 05:00:18 UTC
Other random thoughts:

Removing systems: I don't know how you'd go about this. If you start clearing out vacant, as in no pilots logged out no online pos's, how many would you actually drop. How does it work between when CCP figures that out and when they actually cull the systems? What if someone moves in to a system during that time. What if by some freak chance a famous system just happens to meet those requirements at the time? Is everyone ok losing a Nova or Polaris to the cull? If wew're just dropping random systems, are you fine waking up tomorrow in HS. I'm sure everyone is assuming that it'd just be vacants or at worst bear holes but what if it's SSC or HK? You guys fine getting kicked to the curb?

Personally I feel like Phoenix Jones has the better idea, more connections. Straight up triple every shattered WH static connection. Go remove all anomalies that aren't WH's from them so you don't have to scan through a hundred data's to find them and they'd become a nice transit system. More connections make the universe smaller.

Cloning back home: An ok idea if done right, but won't help the bigger groups but will lower the bar for smaller groups. I'm thinking like a POS module, takes up as much resources as a SMA or CHA or something. Holds 2 clones and the creation of the clones is a big industrial task like making T3 bits. Clones have to be set to particular toon and don't become available until the POS takes its next fuel sip, like gas refining works. This stops people injecting the clone and heading out straight away. This should give smaller groups (<5 humans) a way to get back home safely. Personally I feel a lot of us take for granted how easy it is to get back home when you have a lot of peeps in system or a lot of scan alts logged out. Hopefully it'd change the PvP thinking from "If I lose, I lose my ship, probably my pod, maybe my whole POS and all the work I've done up till now" to "Ok just the ship, probably the pod and I"ll have to make a new return clone."
Accountant O'Death
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2015-04-27 05:01:37 UTC
Rhavas wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
But maybe creating a thunderdome using shattered space is needed. I would even go as far as to say as to link them all together. Find a shattered hole. That shattered links to other shattered holes, which link to other shattered holes. So basically you find one shattered. You find them all.

You create the mega wspace highway there. Movements easier, there is a definitive roaming area other than kspace.

You need to make shattered space worth the travel. Having a shattered highway would help.


I'm not entirely sure, but at first blush I don't hate this idea.

That's unusual for this thread so far, and thus noteworthy.


Not necessarily a bad idea but linking them "all" together probably wouldn't work.Maybe linking them together in 3-5 system clusters with "sleeper" stargates would be interesting.