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How do we increase PvP in C5 and C6?

First post
Author
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#41 - 2015-04-25 12:59:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Hidden Fremen
Aivo Dresden wrote:
Hidden Fremen wrote:
You could have easily taken on TDSIN on your own. Instead you call in the whole gang.

This is how I know you're just another pitchforker. Who did we bring to evict TDSIN, exactly? It's pure LZHX in here. Bombers Bar came to third-party harass because it was being streamed, but this is a Lazerhawks only operation. Do some research, check your facts before you spout ignorance.

Edit 1: I really should stay off these forums... Unsubscribing.
Edit 2: Since you prob cbf to, here's a br: http://kb.lazerhawks.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=22342
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2015-04-25 13:10:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Aivo Dresden
I must have been dreaming then when I saw a combined LZHX and HKC fleet clean house the day before and mop up TDSIN. Oh no, I wasn't. Definitely wasn't.

I'm sure you'll have some explanation here too but that coincidence though; damn that coincidence.
Credacom
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2015-04-25 13:20:35 UTC
What you mean not every player in WH space wants to play the game the way the nerd active pvpers want?
I read this OP as, the WHcfc needs more targets before they might actually have to fight eachother. Once again Jack is right.

Remove farmable/repeatable cap esc sites, reduce their home Isk value by a lot. Get people in their chains by whatever means possible, but maybe encourage rolling statics for continued pve just like lower classes.

This is the simplest and possibly the most effective way to get people to interact more in high-end WH space. It won't stop the WHcfc (player behavior). In fact, the WHcfc is quickly working themselfs out of content faster and faster. But carry on guys, enjoy it while it lasts. Your doing a great job at whatever the fkuc you are trying to do.







Ozz Burtus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2015-04-25 14:00:07 UTC
corbexx wrote:

ArrowRewarding PvP active corps (harder to evict). Some Incursion-esque home system bonus.
ArrowMass:spawn range when jumping wormholes kills small corp PvP tactics. True. Increases non-consensual PvP, but decreases consensual.
ArrowGetting podded into k-space and not in your WH home makes people more risk-averse. Controversial.
ArrowGive wormholes stargate treatment in that they appear on overview; no scanning needed. VERY controversial.
ArrowReducing the number of wormholes. This would obviously increase encounters between players.


TL; DR? Turn WH space slowly into NS without local. No, thank you; all of the above are poor suggestions (by reducing the number of WHs I you mean reduce the number of WH star-systems!?!).

+1 to the notion of forcing the isk grinders into their chain via reducing high-class isk and slightly increasing low-class isk.
+1 to dealing with full hole-control with crit holes.

Adding an extra static to C5 / C6 will just give them another hole to crit and won't be particularly effective I suspect, plus too much connectivity can be a bad thing: a system in swiss-cheese mode makes people very risk averse.

MAYBE some kind of life-reduction after a hole has gone crit? ~ half an hour? After which it collapses and the new static spawns in whatever the host system was. This means more change in the WH connections in C5/C6 space but the same number of connections, increasing the chance of an incoming connection whilst you're running your cap escalation and a better chance that the incoming connection will be from an active system. Scary.

IMHO it would be great to get rid of caps in WH space and bring back Battleships, but I don't fly caps so I'm biased :D.





Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#45 - 2015-04-25 14:35:39 UTC
I'm actually going to attempt some semblance of a constructive argument.

Going after the relationships people have isn't the solution. People will blue and red each other. That happens everywhere. That can't be stopped. The only thing that can be done is to incentivize one behavior over another. There are only three things people fight about in wspace. Planets, attitude, and possible blingy stuff in a pos. that's pretty much it. The space in wspace isn't actually worth anything. Now making actual wspace have a value is one thing, getting the fight is another. The issue tends to be roaming and travel. Most of us roam by rolling the hole, proving 4 to 5 down, then rolling it again.

But maybe creating a thunderdome using shattered space is needed. I would even go as far as to say as to link them all together. Find a shattered hole. That shattered links to other shattered holes, which link to other shattered holes. So basically you find one shattered. You find them all.

You create the mega wspace highway there. Movements easier, there is a definitive roaming area other than kspace.

You need to make shattered space worth the travel. Having a shattered highway would help.

Yaay!!!!

Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#46 - 2015-04-25 15:23:54 UTC
Anyway, those aren't my ideas; just random ideas that were proposed in corp.
Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#47 - 2015-04-25 15:33:10 UTC
Aivo Dresden wrote:
I'm sure you'll have some explanation here too but that coincidence though; damn that coincidence.



Do you think TDSIN only had 20~ caps in their home?

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!

unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2015-04-25 15:53:31 UTC
I lol at the lack of pvp in c5 and c6 space.
They are harvesting what they have sown.
It started when they evicted people that fight .
Then they started to blob 3 to 1 ... .
And now there is no one left to fight .

About the ideas:
Quote:
Rewarding PvP active corps (harder to evict). Some Incursion-esque home system bonus.

Harder to evict, maybe a good idea but only implentable with the new structures probably.

Mass : spawn range was a bad idea and still is, though most of us are used to it now, let it stay.

Clone jumping to wormholes is bad idea, clone swapping to get into pvp clones is a good one.

Quote:
Give wormholes stargate treatment in that they appear on overview; no scanning needed.
NEVER, stop trying to make it null sec and learn how to scan!
Quote:
Reducing the number of wormholes. This would obviously increase encounters between players.
Not sure about this one, it would increase the number off connections wich can lead to more interaction.
But is that not part of the problem now? It is to easy to get in more reinforcements to blob(to get in 3 or more alliances), maybe that should be lowered?
Then it would be harder to get reinforcements in. Combine that with some less income from home sites.
Then people will have a need to spread out more and bigg grop would still dominate but would do that in a smaller area.

Getting more isk in the static then home system could be an answer but how long will that last?
Instead of 1 300 people alliance we will have 3 100 people alliances who are so buddy buddy they will blob everything else. Nothing will have changed.
But do not kill of the need to use caps in pve sites, it takes away a LOT of capitals fight.

And please no structure that add statics with a specific static that would be so easy to game for the bigg alliances that it would escalte into a much worse situation.
WH generation module have only one way to ballance them, NOT DOING THEM.

The only thing i miss in c4-c1 space is the need to have people with you to do pve sites. In c5/c6 that was absolutly necesairy. In c4-c1 you can do them alone.
This does not promote playing with people since the more people pve with you in a c4-c1 site the less you earn. You got to know each other.
Only PVP is in group in c4-c1 space.

A shattered highway might be a good idea, though the question is won't that be a bit like the c5 high way, empty and void of anything active?

No local in null sec would fix everything!

Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#49 - 2015-04-25 16:21:39 UTC
unimatrix0030 wrote:

Then they started to blob 3 to 1 ... .
And now there is no one left to fight .


So I think I'm oblivious to this, but do you have any examples of the "WHCFC" blobbing someone that was actually looking to fight? I know in Lazerhawks we don't respond to batphones when it's against dudes that are looking to fight.
Example: SSC phoning us to fight HK. Us: lolno

I know we form up together to gank site runners nearly on a weekly basis, but I've never considered ganking a site running fleet as a fight or pvp, unless the people we're ganking are actually competent and turn it around.

As for us never fighting each other;
Our last interaction with SSC - their wormhole was crit so no fight, otherwise I'm sure they would've brought it. The time before that.

Our last fight with HK, the time before that.
As far as I'm aware anyway.

I'll be sure to ask for arranged cruiser fights or something when there isn't enough on either side for a giga T3 brawl. I'm sure that will help prove we're all perma blue to each other.

Oh and as for bad ideas, how about a roaming C5/C6 connection that spawns in someone's home and has a high chance of leading to someone else's home. Play with the mass limits if you like.

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!

Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#50 - 2015-04-25 16:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrew Jester
Michael1995 wrote:
Aivo Dresden wrote:
I'm sure you'll have some explanation here too but that coincidence though; damn that coincidence.



Do you think TDSIN only had 20~ caps in their home?


off the mark friendo))

the point is you didn't do it solo

Michael1995 wrote:

Example: SSC phoning us to fight HK. Us: lolno


AHAHAHA THIS IS THE EXAMPLE YOU CHOOSE?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

IS THIS REAL?

jesus **** you're dumb

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#51 - 2015-04-25 16:29:35 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:

AHAHAHA THIS IS THE EXAMPLE YOU CHOOSE?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

IS THIS REAL?

jesus **** you're dumb


Since I'm so bad can you provide some better examples of the WHCFC 3v1ing dudes that were looking for a fight, and not just some null alt alliance running homesites?

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!

Jay Joringer
13.
#52 - 2015-04-25 16:30:58 UTC
I honestly cannot believe that no one has mentioned some kind of device or structure to stabilize Wormholes yet.
Brain Eater
Essence Industries
#53 - 2015-04-25 16:32:07 UTC
I hope fremen was trolling on that bat phoning comment.

This reminds me of goons and nc complaining that Null sec was boring because of CCP, not their giant blue doughnut renter empire.
Brain Eater
Essence Industries
#54 - 2015-04-25 16:51:49 UTC
Quote:
As for us never fighting each other;
Our last interaction with SSC - their wormhole was crit so no fight, otherwise I'm sure they would've brought it. The time before that.

Our last fight with HK, the time before that.
As far as I'm aware anyway.


How many bear and renter holes do you guys have? Big difference between sparring and fighting. So in essence you "dont gang up on people who bring fights" but you guys are the biggest bears in WH. How many cap pilots do your organizations buy and seed constantly? If you guys hate care bears so much you should have fought long ago.

Not to mention your blatant account sharing with QEX so while operations often times "appear" to be only one specific corp it is in reality full time zone coverage via account sharing.


Quote:
I honestly cannot believe that no one has mentioned some kind of device or structure to stabilize Wormholes yet


This would ruin wormholes more than the 3 amigos.






Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#55 - 2015-04-25 17:00:12 UTC
Brain Eater wrote:
How many bear and renter holes do you guys have? Big difference between sparring and fighting. So in essence you "dont gang up on people who bring fights" but you guys are the biggest bears in WH. How many cap pilots do your organizations buy and seed constantly? If you guys hate care bears so much you should have fought long ago.

Not to mention your blatant account sharing with QEX so while operations often times "appear" to be only one specific corp it is in reality full time zone coverage via account sharing.

We rent out every occupied C6 in W-Space atm. We're at like 40% of all occupied C5s. We have at times invited SSC and HK into our home to farm sites with 100+ people in fleet so we're 100% safe.

Did you know account sharing is against the EULA?

Are you a spokesperson for Viziam? If so, could I interest you in some standings with the WHCFC? Since you're such a swanky poster I'll give you a discount; 8b/month.

Hidden Fremen wrote:

I really should stay off these forums... Unsubscribing.

The real troll in this thread. ♥

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!

Help They GotMyMoney
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2015-04-25 17:12:26 UTC
Michael1995 wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:

AHAHAHA THIS IS THE EXAMPLE YOU CHOOSE?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

IS THIS REAL?

jesus **** you're dumb


Since I'm so bad can you provide some better examples of the WHCFC 3v1ing dudes that were looking for a fight, and not just some null alt alliance running homesites?


How about the time u failed to take polaris with 2 times the numbers and 3 separate entities?

Post with you're main.

Lazerhawks: ¨we are 5x better organized and we win by skill not always because of numbers¨

Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#57 - 2015-04-25 17:15:51 UTC
Michael1995 wrote:
3v1ing dudes that were looking for a fight

Help They GotMyMoney wrote:
polaris


My salad sides just imploded, nice troll m8.

Judging by your name you could do with some isk help, could I interest you in some WHCFC standings? I'll give you a special dealio!

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!

Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#58 - 2015-04-25 17:37:26 UTC
unimatrix0030 wrote:


I ran on the c5 highway recently (About 3 days ago). It was fun but it was also pretty much dead with just POS's up. Shattered has no issue regarding pos's, but in order for that to foster fights, there has to be something valuable to get in shattered, and they all need to be interconnected and capable of supporting 5 man fleets to 40 man fleets, caps included.

To do that, there has to be unique items in shattered space to obtain (to make people bring such huge armies in).

Yes that means rare mods that come from officers that spawn at the end of cap escallations in Shattered Space (so yea, you want it, your bringing in a bunch of caps to do it). Means rare items or possible new equipment to be built from the items that can only be obtained in shattered space. Such as New Subsystems that can be found and created only by items dropped in shattered space, or even a new T3 rig or something like that. I'm a little surprised they didn't just throw all the D3 destroyer stuff into the shattered wormholes (slower distribution). I suppose they could do so now but that'd be a different direction.

Incentive the need for going into shattered space, and interconnect shatters together to get people commiting fleets to either run sites in there, or get into fights in there, or roam through it.

Just some thoughts I had. Shattered space could be a viable route to drive wspace conflicts.

Yaay!!!!

Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2015-04-25 18:00:26 UTC
Too may wormholes. This was mentioned when Fozzy added the shattered holes which made it worse

Also, sites need to spawn faster. can't find a c3 with sites to save my life
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#60 - 2015-04-25 18:11:42 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
Too may wormholes. This was mentioned when Fozzy added the shattered holes which made it worse

Also, sites need to spawn faster. can't find a c3 with sites to save my life


The issue (in that case) is inter-connectivity. They'll have to review the method of routing people to make it function better.

Shattered holes haven't made much of a difference atm. I believe they should but they have to be turned into something more than just a random curiosity. If they have had some-type of impact, I haven't seen it (doesn't mean they haven't, I just have not noticed it).

Yaay!!!!