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How do we increase PvP in C5 and C6?

First post
Author
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#21 - 2015-04-25 07:10:02 UTC  |  Edited by: calaretu
Capital escalation in home system need a heavy nerf. A very heavy nerf. Its the sole reason why c5/6 space is stagnant. The reason dual static is so successful for c4 is because we need them to make isk. In a c5/6 you dont need your chains to make isk. In lower classes people have most chains open all the time which basicly leads to more people finding eachother and interacting. So to remove the blue loot from the escalation waves and increase the blue loot in the 2nd+ wave in anoms (and make them harder so you cant solo marauder c5/6 anoms)
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#22 - 2015-04-25 07:10:51 UTC
People not being riskaverse ****heads and playing the game for fun and thrills would be the simple solution, but well...
The escalationsystem doesn´t help at all where the best status of your system is "locked down" with all possile doors closed and not even a door back home needed. And crit is pretty much the same as closed unless you are able to pull a suitcase off.

But I really think the big problem is in shipbalancing: dreads with even just one or two lokis can blab anything and armor T3s are just so much better than anything else and with the ewarboni esp on scram and webrange makes them even stonger against most doctrines. Add to that the static nature of wormholefights and maybe triagecarrers and you get what we have now. Armor being better than shields in larger scales outside of a pulsar, shieldbuffer being a joke against dreads and the drawback of slowness not mattering with lots of bonused ewar and static battlegrounds also isn´t helpful.
If dreads had a harder time hitting smaller stuff, maybe even be it via special fittingmods, and battleships with their high mass were able to beat T3s with lower numbers (I´m thinking about things like the NM, Vindi or Bhaal, who on paper have good boni to combat cruisers). You can fit 30+ cruisers through most holes, but not 30+ BS. Ofc this would create problems with BS <> all other ships in k-space where mass doesn´t matter. But if you had some doctrines, maybe other classes of BS, who execll at fighting the ani-cruiser BS-fleets there wouldn´t be a win-it -all fleetcomp but counters for everything. Unless you just bring 2 fleets to fight against one in your homesystem, but there is no way to prevent that. Also eve has more than 3 types of ships so it would not be that easy.
Newt BlackCompany
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2015-04-25 07:15:51 UTC
What about an anchorable module that would add an extra static to your hole? Maybe you can anchor 2-3 of these modules in your home to increase connections? Maybe even let people select the type of static created? Not HS/LS tho.

Make it expensive and destructible, so they don't litter WH space.
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#24 - 2015-04-25 07:17:36 UTC
WH generation modules the dream~

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Bleedingthrough
#25 - 2015-04-25 07:46:45 UTC
It is the same old story that has been told in so many different ways already and it boils down to: capital escalations.

For me they are **** because they encourage a playstyle I dislike and think is harmful for PvP. Eve is a social game and you don’t need to be a genius to figure out that a mechanic that encourages isolating yourselves from the rest of eve for 4 consecutive nights might not be a good thing. Take a look at the groups that moved into lower class WHs for exactly this reason. Generating income from statics is actually fun and creates lots of content.

I am all for getting rid of capital escalation mechanics and slightly buff full clears. This could potentially incentivize running statics sites and statics are a more balanced battlefield than in someone’s home fortress.

Also the spawn distance mechanic change has been a mediocre choice by CCP. It does make rolling more frustrating while not creating much meaningful content. More importantly it makes it very difficult to fight outnumbered.
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#26 - 2015-04-25 08:10:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Ab'del Abu
corbexx wrote:

ArrowGetting podded into k-space and not in your WH home makes people more risk-averse. Controversial.


Imho this is an important issue. I think many people would engage more readily if they didn't end up in k-space, but in their own POS.

As a compromise, people who choose to set their medical clone to their POS could end up in a sort of stasis (for say half an hour or so) after being podded to balance home advantage ...

A clone swapping POS mod would be pretty awesome too btw :>

Turd Destroyer wrote:
Dual statics for high class space. Look at the boon it has been for c4 space.


This.

Jack Miton wrote:
it's really easy. you take all the 300man groups, make them into 50-100 man groups and remove all their blues.


And this.

Bleedingthrough wrote:
It is the same old story that has been told in so many different ways already and it boils down to: capital escalations.

For me they are **** because they encourage a playstyle I dislike and think is harmful for PvP. Eve is a social game and you don’t need to be a genius to figure out that a mechanic that encourages isolating yourselves from the rest of eve for 4 consecutive nights might not be a good thing. Take a look at the groups that moved into lower class WHs for exactly this reason. Generating income from statics is actually fun and creates lots of content.



This is only partially true. I would agree that escalations may offer too big of an income overall. This could be easily dealt with by simply removing the ability to escalate them multiple days in a row. However, getting rid of escalations completely would be stupid as potential cap kills actually incentivizes a lot of content.

As for rolling your hole safe, low class inhabitants do it too. Many groups actually collapse the holes in their statics as well, if they're going to run sites there. So much for content^^
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#27 - 2015-04-25 08:17:58 UTC
Ab'del Abu wrote:
As a compromise, people who choose to set their medical clone to their POS could end up in a sort of stasis (for say half an hour or so) after being podded to balance home advantage ...

This sounds like an excellent way for CCP to get people to log out of their game.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#28 - 2015-04-25 08:25:47 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Ab'del Abu wrote:
As a compromise, people who choose to set their medical clone to their POS could end up in a sort of stasis (for say half an hour or so) after being podded to balance home advantage ...

This sounds like an excellent way for CCP to get people to log out of their game.


Yipp :>

In some cases I'd rather log out and/or wait half an hour than get myself back into system. Wouldn't be surprised if other people felt the same.
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#29 - 2015-04-25 08:37:28 UTC
Some more food for thought:

Arrow On average, less than 5% of all active characters are in w-space, yet w-space makes up for a third of all systems in EVE. Maybe Anokis is too big.

Arrow An activity index for systems could be used in order to increase the probability of active holes to connect with each other. I'm sure Bob would want that Big smile
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-04-25 09:09:06 UTC
I'm also for dual statics, every wormhole should have them to be honest.

Remove capital escalations and adjust regular site ISK so it's at least profitable and worth running in the shiny ships that it would require.

Lower class space income should also be boosted, tried a few C2 sites and 12m/site is pretty awful considering the difficulty.

Make data and relic cans (not talocans) worth something again.
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#31 - 2015-04-25 09:21:11 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

Remove capital escalations and adjust regular site ISK so it's at least profitable and worth running in the shiny ships that it would require.


Remove capital escalations and see where all the people go:

a) C4s or C2s with C5/C6 statics.
b) Null

Don't think this helps C5/C6 pvp.
Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#32 - 2015-04-25 09:22:05 UTC
corbexx wrote:

Firstly I'm still of the opinion that better pve and increasing getting people in to space is the way to increase pvp.


A good first step for improving pve, would be to un-do most of fozzie's changes, such as;
Mass spawn range (chain collapsing is more time consuming)
Shattered WH's (lets be honest, they contribute nothing, besides being a large c5/c6 anom sink)
Frigate WH's (most people think like this: we gonna bear today? nope frig wh. oh cya tomorow then)
It would make bearing even safer, so bringing back npc api statistics would balance it all out.

But that is a carrybear's point of view, and would only increase the number of bears/targets/people who hunt those, and not increase actual pvp.

~lvl 60 paladin~

Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#33 - 2015-04-25 09:35:37 UTC
corbexx wrote:

1.Rewarding PvP active corps (harder to evict). Some Incursion-esque home system bonus.
2. Mass:spawn range when jumping wormholes kills small corp PvP tactics. True. Increases non-consensual PvP, but decreases consensual.
3. Getting podded into k-space and not in your WH home makes people more risk-averse. Controversial.
4. Give wormholes stargate treatment in that they appear on overview; no scanning needed. VERY controversial.
5. Reducing the number of wormholes. This would obviously increase encounters between players.


1. No. Too easily exploited.
2. Yes, all fozzie changes are bad.
3. No. It would just mean that the gang you are fighting can reship and come back aka favors the 'blob' ?
4. Isn't the whole point of wh's to scan? Especially with how easy scanning is today, people who cant even manage that, probably don't belong in wh's.
5. No. Just no. Way to many reasons to state.

~lvl 60 paladin~

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-04-25 09:39:57 UTC
Ab'del Abu wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

Remove capital escalations and adjust regular site ISK so it's at least profitable and worth running in the shiny ships that it would require.


Remove capital escalations and see where all the people go:

a) C4s or C2s with C5/C6 statics.
b) Null

Don't think this helps C5/C6 pvp.


Again, your powers of selective reading never cease to surprise me.
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#35 - 2015-04-25 09:58:51 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:


Again, your powers of selective reading never cease to surprise me.


LOL get that. The remainder of your above post is irrelevant to improving C5/C6.

Tsukino Stareine wrote:
I'm also for dual statics, every wormhole should have them to be honest.


I already commented on that.

Tsukino Stareine wrote:

Lower class space income should also be boosted, tried a few C2 sites and 12m/site is pretty awful considering the difficulty.


Wut? How does this help C5/C6 pvp?

Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Make data and relic cans (not talocans) worth something again.


This is in no way an incentive to live and pvp in high class holes. People don't move to C5s or C6s for instrumental core sites either. Pretty much the same thing ...

Now pls stop shitposting kthxbai

Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2015-04-25 10:38:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Aivo Dresden
corbexx wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:
also lol asking lazerhawks for advice on anything other than batphoning


It was Hidden Fremen who came to me (well he spoke to Sugar who passed it on to me) saying it needed looking at, so I asked for suggestions.

That's comedy considering they are the first to gang up and evict people with overwhelming numbers. What it needs is the blue donut to disappear. If you clowns would shoot each other, you'd have plenty of PvP opportunities.
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#37 - 2015-04-25 11:06:28 UTC
Also more people does not equal more pvp as long as the fundamental mechanic for where they live is to isolate themself. As shown by this chart http://i.imgur.com/HHnqDlI.png?1 c5 and c6 space has no shortage of active characters. They just dont interact with eachother. Until full clear brings more isk than consecutive escalation c5/6 will remain the dead zone it currently is and groups will either move down to c4 (like so many have started to do) or out to null. Amd c5/6 will fill up with nullsec farmers who use it to fund nullsec pvp and nothing else
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#38 - 2015-04-25 12:23:00 UTC
Aivo Dresden wrote:
corbexx wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:
also lol asking lazerhawks for advice on anything other than batphoning


It was Hidden Fremen who came to me (well he spoke to Sugar who passed it on to me) saying it needed looking at, so I asked for suggestions.

That's comedy considering they are the first to gang up and evict people with overwhelming numbers. What it needs is the blue donut to disappear. If you clowns would shoot each other, you'd have plenty of PvP opportunities.

Lol...
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#39 - 2015-04-25 12:24:59 UTC
I'd just love a bandaid implant that sets your clone's respawn location to a POS facility. Don't care if I can't plug in anyhitng besides that imp, it would just safe so much hazzle.
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2015-04-25 12:43:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Aivo Dresden
Hidden Fremen wrote:

Don't know what you're complaining about. You fly together with HKC (and QEX) all the time and then complain there's nothing to shoot and PvP is stagnant. It's pretty straight forward, the more people you add on your buddies list, the less people there are on your enemies list. How about you shoot those buddies instead of holding each others hands and singing Kumbaya around the campfire every other day?

EDIT: You could have easily taken on TDSIN on your own. Instead you call in the whole gang. And then you come in here complaining PVP is stagnant. I'm not sure what kind of answer you were expecting to be honest. It's pretty hard to compete when you rock up with fleets like that, composed out of a bunch of different entities that you claim "aren't blue". Yea OK, whatever dude. Don't complain about the problem you're actively part of.