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Dev blog: Opportunities in New Eden ... or how I learned to play EVE

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Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#61 - 2015-04-28 01:10:26 UTC
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#62 - 2015-04-28 05:15:23 UTC
Waited for trying this out a lot.

Let's remember you all about my trading achievements list.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
MomoByLet
FR - Division P4
#63 - 2015-04-28 21:34:20 UTC
Natya Mebelle wrote:
... I see opportunities are more damaging than the other NPE. Your three statistics in that devblog are EXTREMELY vague.
  1. More likely to have killed an NPC? This is super vague. One of the the things you ever do in the regular NPE is actually killing a pirate ship. Are you claiming that people drop out of the game BEFORE they even get there with the "old" NPE?

  2. More likely to have used the market? I have two counter statistics for you: 100% of people asking for reimbursement for a skillbook they bought which they didn't need have done so because of opportunities. Why? Because the "old" NPE does not ASK to use the market. Players learn that with career agents. So this is a flawed statistic. And it's actually a pretty bad example, because it means that 25% of people using the opportunities did not even GET to use the market.
  3. 100% more likely to have mined? Are you kidding me? The "old" NPE does not even FEATURE mining until you get to career agents. What does that statistic have to do with anything?
You are really pushing vague numbers here to make your opportunity system look good. But hey, I can ignore that, let me get to less assumptions but more useful things:

My opinion is you should not expand the opportunities beyond ANYTHING than the first look into the game, before you do the career agents. The moment you bring in opportunities OUTSIDE the first look and learning the ropes, you open the entire can of worms for mindless achievement hunting which makes people burn out more often than not. If you need to rely on achievement hunting to keep players in the game, then you are automatically agreeing the content of your game and it's availability is not up to par.

There should be NO rewards for opportunities. The actual reward is dipping your toe into the water and going to somewhere else to learn more: Career agents, helpful corporations, or just going straight into space and learn all the things yourself.

Some of your opportunities are flat out STUPID forceful handholding devices. "Add a contact". Why are you forcing socialization upon players? I see nothing but confusion and annoyance from people who are "target" of such a mindless task. Allow people to make contacts when THEY want. Not because they feel compelled to complete achievements.

The biggest problem with your New Player Experience never was the up-front Tutorial.

...


Obviously obvious
Please CCP take him in your devteam !

Question : With the new tutorial, how players are supposed to fit their ship without modules or money ?

Bidouilleur de http://www.eveonlinep4.fr/
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2015-05-01 10:13:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Natya Mebelle
Whoever in CCP was responsible for this atrocity called opportunities ... what is wrong with you? You didn't just remove the Aura tutorial in the starter system. You removed EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE of Aura.

That means nobody ever gets the tutorial infopops when accepting a career mission.
That means nobody will ever learn scanning inside the game.
60 words to explain scanning in tutorial, WITHOUT even pointing to the starmap, WITHOUT even listing the correct name of the probe launcher is mindboggling.

I strongly suggest you reinstate ALL instances of "yellow" Aura. You know, the tutorials that pop up which were made to run ALONGSIDE the career missions. The Aura tutorials which had yellow bold highlights for emphasis. The one that linked you to evelopia. I don't mean the one with the teal highlights. You clearly wanted to replace the teal Aura.

REINSTATE YELLOW AURA.

This is the worst state of the NPE since 2007.

What you did not include in your fancy fanfest statistics is, how often people are using google and youtube compared to before. Because right now, Eve online is just another game with WORTHLESS tutorials.
Eve online has become one of the games where it is better to use youtube and google.
Eve is no longer a game with self explanatory tutorials.
Eve is no longer a game where I can say with a warm fuzzy feeling "this is the only game you play where tutorials matter, so you should do them" to new players.

The amount of my disappointment is not measurable.

Reinstate yellow Aura with a maintenance patch to have at least SOME form of damage control.

My indepth feedback about opportunities will be coming later, and boy it does not look good at all. You screwed up royally.

"Eve online tutorial? It does not exist. Just effin google it"

Yes, I'm mad. I have been trying to help Eve with feedback for the tutorials since many years. This is the worst you have done so far to Eve. Well done.
Skalle Pande
Teknisk Forlag
#65 - 2015-05-01 22:52:57 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
ohhhh, can one of them be " steal someone else's mission item " !

I was thinking along the lines of more than one player getting the milestone mission, but only one mission item. By default, said mission item must be stolen.

Or taken from someone who did.

Since there are gate mechanics that restrict ships, and dueling mechanics that can limit engagement, I don't think such missions could be impossible but I have not seen the code so who knows.

I would also expand the milestone or achievement (none dare call it "leveling") into another realm, something like "get from point A to point B while suspect flagged". Imagine for example a mission whereby you have to pick up an item for an agent that is of dubious legality such that you have to get it back to the agent while flagged in a manner that everybody can shoot you. I think this would be a good introduction to GTFO methods related to PVP and I think the noobs would get glorious lols.

In summary, I think the game would benefit if PVP elements were introduced in the NPE. The NPE has been, notoriously and for years, an "intro to grinding".

Yeah, we have actually discussed this before mate Blink.
The only issue we found with it last time was if it were in a mission scenario it would be immediately gamed by someone for a profit, certainly something worth thinking about

Traveling suspect is actually pretty fun when you choose to do it,
I used to get a rush from it when I started flipping mission bears (I still kinda do actually but it's lost the edgy fear it used to have)

Right. Actually I would wholly support this, even being now probably the most pacifistic and dull EVE-player around, with a grand total of 1 (one) real killmail to my "credit". Anybody worse than that here? No? Thought so. Would have done me good to have been enticed into PvP in the early stages of my career.

But do it the other way around, too. Make it an achievement to have been ganked, podded, etc. And then have Aura tell me that this is ok and is an intended part of the game, what to do next to get flying again, and first of all to go back out and get - well, not even, because as a newbie you can never really hope to get the bastard who got you, but at least you could go find somebody else whose life could be made a little bit more miserable. First time I got podded it took me several hours of doing nothing and almost made me quit on the spot, first because I had no clue as to the real meaning of "low sec", and second because I actually thought something would be "done about it" by the game...
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#66 - 2015-05-05 23:38:30 UTC
countdown begins as they try to use pretty pie charts to say this idea was a huge success and taken well by the "community"

paging dr.ccp rise and his charts

paging dr. rise and his pretty charts..

there is no lie in those charts now.


imho this is by far the worst NPE idea ever came up. I hate it, I wish I can turn it off.. it pops up telling me something "new" I did with me knowing already that I did it.. I hate it.. I hate it.. I hate it.

add a turn off button pls.
thowlimer
Roprocor Ltd
#67 - 2015-05-06 08:03:41 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
countdown begins as they try to use pretty pie charts to say this idea was a huge success and taken well by the "community"

paging dr.ccp rise and his charts

paging dr. rise and his pretty charts..

there is no lie in those charts now.


imho this is by far the worst NPE idea ever came up. I hate it, I wish I can turn it off.. it pops up telling me something "new" I did with me knowing already that I did it.. I hate it.. I hate it.. I hate it.

add a turn off button pls.


Open opportunities(top left in with the sys info etc icons), hit the cogwheel settings, tick/untick the approriate box
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2015-05-07 13:57:57 UTC
Opportunities continue to confuse the living hell out of new players. I have never heard so much bad feedback about Eve's tutorials than ever before and have never seen so many helpless players asking in Starter corporation chat and needing to use outgame resources to even get the basics done.

Bring back Career Agent Aura popups, the ones with the yellow highlights, and bring back those tutorials in the F12 tab. Career agents are next to worthless when it comes to explanations due to these missing tutorials.

Nowadays, helping new players becomes a chore, and a frustrating one at that.
Kaos Maximo
Shadow Legion X
Seriously Suspicious
#69 - 2015-05-13 05:16:43 UTC
Opportunities can be really usefull for new players, the problem is that i belive that its not well focused.

Removing Aura was maby a step to see if this new feature works by itself, and its seems like its not. I love EVE and its the best game i have ever played, problem is that you need to know it well and then you fall in love to it and there is no better moment than the first time, the first corporation, the first mission or just the first time you undok and see the space.

Bring Aura back, at least to tell the new players to try the opportunities, and also make the "confidential agent" specifically for career agents, also make that opportunity be the first one to apear to a new player, that will make the new players to find a way to know all the stuff the game have to offer for them.

Maby Aura popups was a lot of info but theres other ways like making audible logs

Theres a lot of things you can make for a good tutorial, and i really hope you achieve it, because i really like this game as a lot of people, if you dont make a good tutorial new players will just burn out and leave, leaving the game to die so please hear us out a bit.
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2015-05-13 11:27:05 UTC
Let's keep going with constant nagging of things which are completely out of bounds.

Reading corp chat and Cistuvaert local is painful. Basic gameplay questions are asked which have never been asked before, because they have all been answered in the Aura tutorials..

Natya Mebelle wrote:
I strongly suggest you reinstate ALL instances Aura tutorials that popped up ALONGSIDE the career agents. The Aura tutorials which had yellow bold highlights for emphasis. The one that linked you to Evelopia


The opportunity that leads to the career agents is the LAST one of the opportunities to pop up when you do them all in a row. Without help from veterans, a good number of players would have thrown in the towel already. If you play the Confidential Agent right after the basic opportunities, at the 4th position in line, then almost all other opportunities would be completed through career agents on their own.

Again, this is the worst state of the NPE since 2007. There is not a single mention of "right click" and not a single mention of Evelopia. I am ashamed how there have been zero improvements made since Mosaic deployment, and zero improvements on the new map. The feedback from players is breathtaking, the reaction is not. That really makes me sad :c You can do better CCP, I know it, I've seen it.