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Dev blog: Opportunities in New Eden ... or how I learned to play EVE

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Author
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#21 - 2015-04-24 17:20:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
I love the opportunity system and how it is much more "sandboxy" than the old crash course.

HOWEVER:

1- IT. NEED. REWARDS. Seriously Big smile That's part of the pleasure of running the tutorial.
If you don't want to tie a specific reward to a specific opportunity, why not having each completed opportunity fill a progress bar, with numerous steps giving (very basic) rewards (skill books, civilian stuff, etc...)
Use the delivery system for the rewards, and it gives you an excuse to teach it to players.

2- We should be able to hide the opportunity pannel on the left side of the screen. Make it an option, please.

3- The opportunity map is ugly. It needs to be pretty and appealing! That's one critical part of the UI for new players, if needs to make them want to stay. I am aware that there are plans for this, but having a decent map -instead of randomly placed opportunities in a window- is something that should be present day one when opportunities were released.

4- As the number of opportunities increases, so does the confusion with all these alveoli that look exactly the same.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Arwatt Wahad
House Wahad
#22 - 2015-04-24 17:47:01 UTC
I do have one question regarding the old career agents. Besides serving as a tutorial to new players they often served as a quick repair to faction standings, where a player could just blitz trough the missions and have an easy boost to his standing. It might be argued this is a broken mechanic (wich, tbh, I think it is) but never the less it is in the game.

I suppose that with the "New Opportunities" systems, this agens will be retiring since their job becomes meaningless.

So, my question is if this is the case?

Although standings are not important for some of the players, for me they are, and I just might be running all of them while I still can.
Vhelnik Cojoin
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#23 - 2015-04-24 18:23:34 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
ohhhh, can one of them be " steal someone else's mission item " !

Bonus points to the dev team if the related Achievement Opportunity would be called 'Mischief Managed!' Big smile

Have you Communicated with your fellow capsuleers today? It is good for the EvE-oconomy and o-kay for you.

CCP Delegate Zero
C C P
C C P Alliance
#24 - 2015-04-24 18:28:01 UTC
What we do with career agents is still an open subject. It's possible they could remain in some form but on the other hand it might be we strip them out with a sufficiently developed Opportunities system that includes some means of providing rewards.

It's very much something we have to think about some more.

CCP Delegate Zero | Content Designer - Writer | @CCPDelegateZero

Celise Katelo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2015-04-24 18:31:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Celise Katelo
Doh.. starting to sound like World of Warcraft with achievements, next we will get to level our character to level 100 & add Paragon levels like Diablo3 Blink

EVEBoard ...Just over 60million skill points, each skill was chosen for a reason. I closed my eyes & clicked another skill to train... "BINGO...!!!" ... "This time i got something usefull"

CCP Delegate Zero
C C P
C C P Alliance
#26 - 2015-04-24 18:33:43 UTC
Celise Katelo wrote:
Doh.. starting to sound like World of Warcraft with achievements, next we will get to level our character to level 100 & add Paragon levels like Diablo3 Blink


I was thinking about calling them 'Infomorph Psychosis' levels but it's not a done deal.

CCP Delegate Zero | Content Designer - Writer | @CCPDelegateZero

Solecist Project
#27 - 2015-04-24 18:34:12 UTC
If there's no "suicide gank a pod" achievement ...

... then something is clearly missing.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#28 - 2015-04-24 18:37:48 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
If there's no "suicide gank a pod" achievement ...

... then something is clearly missing.

should be called "shoot someone in the face"
Solecist Project
#29 - 2015-04-24 18:37:56 UTC
Then there should be an "evade faction police without leaving grid" achievement ...
... and "shoot shuttle and pod in one go, under sentry fire in a thrasher" achievement.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Solecist Project
#30 - 2015-04-24 18:39:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
If there's no "suicide gank a pod" achievement ...

... then something is clearly missing.

should be called "shoot someone in the face"

Sadly I believe that there won't be such a thing ...
... although it definitely should be there.



And sorry ... rewards are a bad idea.

The point of rewards is not to reward, but to create addiction.
To make people go for one more. One more. One more.

It's simply a bad idea to have them.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Vhelnik Cojoin
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#31 - 2015-04-24 18:39:55 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
If there's no "suicide gank a pod" achievement ...

... then something is clearly missing.

should be called "shoot someone in the face"

"The Bitter Taste of Pod Goo."

Have you Communicated with your fellow capsuleers today? It is good for the EvE-oconomy and o-kay for you.

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2015-04-24 18:47:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Nariya Kentaya
Yeah well, the SECOND I hear someone say "cant come on that op" or "cant help out" or "sorry no time for a roam" because they are working on an ACHIEVEMENT, we got a problem, and unfortuneately, the ONLY players that this will cater to are the ones who will ONLY care about the achievement, so they will NOT work well with the community and will burn out or leave the second they get close or do get all the current achievements.

Your starting to cater to transient players with alot of these recent changes CCP, watch yourself.


I mean comeon EVE is a game of consequence, of profit, of endgoals, and working for results, doing something "for profit" makes sense, "so my enemy cant" makes sense, "because my corp/alliance needs it" makes sense. But "so i can get achievement points" doesnt fit, it will lead to arbitrary behaviour, and the expectation in new players that these are what they SHOULD be chasing, rather than making their own path and interacting with the community.

This caters to players that want to be led on quests, not ones that want to be part of a community.
Hicksimus
Torgue
#33 - 2015-04-24 18:50:40 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
If there's no "suicide gank a pod" achievement ...

... then something is clearly missing.

should be called "shoot someone in the face"



I aim lower, this is EvE after all.

Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#34 - 2015-04-24 18:54:47 UTC
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
^^ This.

The opportunities system looks good on Singularity. I haven't gone all the way through it, but the 2/3 or so that I've seen, I like.

You naughty, naughty people don't remind new players to bookmark the wormholes they jump through, so I predict lots of frigates piloted by lost newbies in Anoikis. But hey, it's content! It will probably make wormholes seem as much a scary frontier as they were meant to be.


We do remind them.


Odd. I picked up the opportunity and jumped a wormhole just to check that, and didn't see it. Maybe next time I should have less whiskey.

CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
Also it's not on the suggested track of opportunities. They can go and do it if they like the idea but Aura won't suggest it.


Awwwww. Twisted

I understand if you want to try rewards, but I'm going to register my skepticism here. Even if they are wildly successful, they are basically telling you that this is how the game works, and it isn't how the game works. As they are, opportunities rest lightly enough on top of the core game that I think they work well.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Solecist Project
#35 - 2015-04-24 19:00:33 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Yeah well, the SECOND I hear someone say "cant come on that op" or "cant help out" or "sorry no time for a roam" because they are working on an ACHIEVEMENT, we got a problem, and unfortuneately, the ONLY players that this will cater to are the ones who will ONLY care about the achievement, so they will NOT work well with the community and will burn out or leave the second they get close or do get all the current achievements.

Your starting to cater to transient players with alot of these recent changes CCP, watch yourself.


I mean comeon EVE is a game of consequence, of profit, of endgoals, and working for results, doing something "for profit" makes sense, "so my enemy cant" makes sense, "because my corp/alliance needs it" makes sense. But "so i can get achievement points" doesnt fit, it will lead to arbitrary behaviour, and the expectation in new players that these are what they SHOULD be chasing, rather than making their own path and interacting with the community.

This caters to players that want to be led on quests, not ones that want to be part of a community.

Achievements aren't that much of an issue as long as there are no rewards.

I totally agree that achievements alone are already something that make people addicted ...
... but rewards would be even worse.

Yes, a lot of people feed their ego with achievements ...
... but you have to remember that literally everyone will have them anyway.


It's not completely the same as in, like XBLA or steam games ...
... I hope.


In any way can't we blame CCP for doing something that caters to these people.
If that's how you get them, then that's the way for CCP to go.

It's not CCPs fault at all.
They just want to keep the business running and increase it.

The fact that the whole industry nowadays is pretty much going after lower instincts ...
... and making people addicted ...
... well, it's a sad fact but there's nothing going to change that.

Most of the world is working this way already.
It's the same for advertisements.
Marketing in general.

We got to a point where every time someone tries to sell you something ...
... there's a gigantic scientific background behind it.

It's all about removing conscious thought and triggering the "I WANT" button,
combined with making people feel inadequate when they don't have "it".

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#36 - 2015-04-24 19:48:14 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
ohhhh, can one of them be " steal someone else's mission item " !



I was thinking along the lines of more than one player getting the milestone mission, but only one mission item. By default, said mission item must be stolen.

Or taken from someone who did.

Since there are gate mechanics that restrict ships, and dueling mechanics that can limit engagement, I don't think such missions could be impossible but I have not seen the code so who knows.

I would also expand the milestone or achievement (none dare call it "leveling") into another realm, something like "get from point A to point B while suspect flagged". Imagine for example a mission whereby you have to pick up an item for an agent that is of dubious legality such that you have to get it back to the agent while flagged in a manner that everybody can shoot you. I think this would be a good introduction to GTFO methods related to PVP and I think the noobs would get glorious lols.

In summary, I think the game would benefit if PVP elements were introduced in the NPE. The NPE has been, notoriously and for years, an "intro to grinding".



Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#37 - 2015-04-24 20:05:05 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
ohhhh, can one of them be " steal someone else's mission item " !



I was thinking along the lines of more than one player getting the milestone mission, but only one mission item. By default, said mission item must be stolen.

Or taken from someone who did.

Since there are gate mechanics that restrict ships, and dueling mechanics that can limit engagement, I don't think such missions could be impossible but I have not seen the code so who knows.

I would also expand the milestone or achievement (none dare call it "leveling") into another realm, something like "get from point A to point B while suspect flagged". Imagine for example a mission whereby you have to pick up an item for an agent that is of dubious legality such that you have to get it back to the agent while flagged in a manner that everybody can shoot you. I think this would be a good introduction to GTFO methods related to PVP and I think the noobs would get glorious lols.

In summary, I think the game would benefit if PVP elements were introduced in the NPE. The NPE has been, notoriously and for years, an "intro to grinding".




Yeah, we have actually discussed this before mate Blink.
The only issue we found with it last time was if it were in a mission scenario it would be immediately gamed by someone for a profit, certainly something worth thinking about


Traveling suspect is actually pretty fun when you choose to do it,
I used to get a rush from it when I started flipping mission bears (I still kinda do actually but it's lost the edgy fear it used to have)
Solecist Project
#38 - 2015-04-24 20:07:31 UTC
What about an "Join a corp and destroy your corpmate" achievement?

Oh, wait ....

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Sven Viko VIkolander
In space we are briefly free
#39 - 2015-04-24 20:37:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Sven Viko VIkolander
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Yeah well, the SECOND I hear someone say "cant come on that op" or "cant help out" or "sorry no time for a roam" because they are working on an ACHIEVEMENT, we got a problem, and unfortuneately, the ONLY players that this will cater to are the ones who will ONLY care about the achievement, so they will NOT work well with the community and will burn out or leave the second they get close or do get all the current achievements.

Your starting to cater to transient players with alot of these recent changes CCP, watch yourself.


I mean comeon EVE is a game of consequence, of profit, of endgoals, and working for results, doing something "for profit" makes sense, "so my enemy cant" makes sense, "because my corp/alliance needs it" makes sense. But "so i can get achievement points" doesnt fit, it will lead to arbitrary behaviour, and the expectation in new players that these are what they SHOULD be chasing, rather than making their own path and interacting with the community.

This caters to players that want to be led on quests, not ones that want to be part of a community.


This is a terrible line of reasoning, though to call it reasoning is a compliment. Because CCP has added what are little more than notifications telling players how to do certain actions in game, with feedback when they complete that that action, CCP is now catering "to players that want to be led on quests"? Also, you give absolutely no evidence that " the ONLY players that this will cater to are the ones who will ONLY care about the achievement." (Sorry, putting "only" in caps does not make it any more plausible.) Giving new players feedback , for instance, about the ability to manually control ships in space, and then informing them that they've done so, is only of interest only to players that want the "achievement" itself? That's like saying the skills mastery system is a bad system in game because it leads players to only train skills to get the mastery levels.

Also, you contradict yourself. You first complain that players might not come on an op or roam because they are completing achievements, but then you complain that players should be "making their own path" in game. If some players would rather complete achievements than go on a roam, isn't that their own way of "making their own path"?

The thing that amazes me about bad posters is that they are somehow still intelligent enough to operate a computer and keyboard.
Logix42
Taxation Damnation
#40 - 2015-04-24 20:51:34 UTC
Rance Ikari wrote:
I dont like the idea of opportunities being expanded further beyond the NPE, as that begins to suggest an expectation for players to achieve them.
EVE being a sandbox society should be a reflection of the player himself in the purest sense, without dev meddling. The achievement itself is its own reward; killing a titan should be remembered for the event and not as some tickbox item. EVE is built on the premise of player justice, and so rewards should also be something that players decide and create for themselves.

I'd be careful of too many quality of life and automating features because that is tantamount to taking jobs away from the player. Sure people feel good about not having to work as hard at first, but feelgood impulses are generally self destructive in the long run.


Absolutely this. Seems like it's working great for NPE. But don't make the entire Eve experience a series of tickboxes. It's should always be player driven.

Go beyond the edge of space... Explore