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Last thread about CSM was closed for not being constructive... Take 2 on the CSM

Author
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#121 - 2011-12-05 11:56:11 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Highsec bears outnumber null players by 4:1


So what?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Tore Vest
#122 - 2011-12-05 11:57:50 UTC
CSM still here ? Cool

Oh... and i see that "goons forum poaster brigade" is forming to deffend their mittens Lol

No troll.

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#123 - 2011-12-05 12:03:25 UTC
Andski wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Highsec bears outnumber null players by 4:1


So what?

Hey, read all the words I put in that post, man!

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#124 - 2011-12-05 12:03:31 UTC
I <3 DP

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#125 - 2011-12-05 12:06:57 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Highsec bears outnumber null players by 4:1

If you're still complaining the voting system is skewed in favour of the null players (and the system does NOT use proportional representation) then you're doing it wrong.

During the last elections, most of the people I spoke to in highsec didn't know what they were.

That kind of apathy shouldn't be present on the CSM



Null sec players sound cooler and more hip hop, much like bill clinton playing the saxophone or obama being kenyan and exotic. That kind of stuff helps alot in elections. You could always try a get out to vote approach and tell other hi sec people to vote for the boring person running for CSM.

Vote for me I solo veld with a hulk and run a small pos since it sure is hard finding reserach slots in hi sec. Sometimes I do PI but not now with taxes, and incursions only want faction fitted ships so I dont do them. I will represent all hi sec if you vote me in. And we shall recieve better tutorials on how to play eve but also have a life outside of it ( Of course voiced by aura). Thank you for your consideration.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#126 - 2011-12-05 12:17:52 UTC
Highsec players may outnumber nullsec players by a ratio of 4:1, but just trying killing an Erebus with that Covetor. :smirk:


Seriously though, I have 4 highsec alts and 2 nullsec characters. But I vote in the CSM elections as someone from nullsec. I would ordinarily expect a rational and reasonably intelligent human to infer the rest from this, but since you probably aren't, I'll lay it out for you. My highsec alts outnumber me two to one. I am at least partially representative of the rest of nullsec, because most people keep at least one highsec alt to buy things on the market for their character or run missions for them or both. Therefore, the number of highsec "players" as opposed to nullsec players will be an inflated one.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2011-12-05 12:52:25 UTC
Fix My Lasers wrote:
Few facts:
- New BCs are useless on missions because they have no drones. Only Talos have them, but it is a blaster boat = useless too.
1st scrambling frig will be your death.

Solo, yes. Combine those with a tanking BC like, say, a drake, and I would assume you'd have a nice combo that still costs less than your average hisec tengu.

Disclaimer: I don't do missions, I think they're about as fun as watching paint dry. ymmv.

Fix My Lasers wrote:
- T1 laser crystals are useless. T2 or faction ones are the only valid choice for missions.

Why?
Fix My Lasers wrote:
Anyways this arguing won't help improving the game because no one listens and CSMs are busy fixing null.

I'd argue that they aren't just "fixing null", there's been a lot of changes that affect hisec as well, like the neutral repping issue, I believe, and literally tons of small UI and usability fixes.

However, they are probably spending more time trying to get CCP to fix null, because null was, and probably still is, in danger of stagnating hard. What was the last huge war you saw a report on the last 6-12 months? Have you seen the quality of posting that's been going on on sites such as kugu? Some threads there are literally threatening to become worse than most eve-o threads because literally the only thing they can argue about is who was most honourable, the guys selfdestructing dreads or the guys dropping titans and supercarriers.

It's in dire need of help before it goes below a critical mass because of things like the anom nerf which caused tons of 0.0 space to be vacated, and SOV systems which allowed IT Alliance to keep SOV several months after they'd essentially officially disbanded and left the area. And therefore it's the area of the game which I would expect to get the most attention for at least the next patch, because face it, eve online does not get any press whatsoever for mining or doing missions. It gets it for being a cold place, where backstabbing is rife, and whole swathes of space swap hands at gunpoint. If that part of the game goes poof, so does the entire game.

This isn't to say that I believe that empire is worthless, there's been tons of suggestions for adding valid career paths to living in hisec, and I support that. I'm just saying that right now, if nullsec hadn't been at least begun worked at again after about 2 years of seemingly nothing but apathy from CCP, I would've expected EVE to cease to exist in a few years, and CCP along with it.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#128 - 2011-12-05 13:03:56 UTC
Tore Vest wrote:
CSM still here ? Cool

Oh... and i see that "goons forum poaster brigade" is forming to deffend their mittens Lol

it really sucks to get kicked around nullsec, doesn't it

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Tore Vest
#129 - 2011-12-05 13:05:54 UTC
Andski wrote:
Tore Vest wrote:
CSM still here ? Cool

Oh... and i see that "goons forum poaster brigade" is forming to deffend their mittens Lol

it really sucks to get kicked around nullsec, doesn't it


Im not living in nullsec.....
Im a highsec carebear Cool

No troll.

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#130 - 2011-12-05 13:07:33 UTC
Tore Vest wrote:
Andski wrote:
Tore Vest wrote:
CSM still here ? Cool

Oh... and i see that "goons forum poaster brigade" is forming to deffend their mittens Lol

it really sucks to get kicked around nullsec, doesn't it


Im not living in nullsec.....
Im a highsec carebear Cool


because you got thrown out, lmao

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Tore Vest
#131 - 2011-12-05 13:10:07 UTC
Andski wrote:


because you got thrown out, lmao


No.... I discovered highsec incursions Cool

No troll.

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2011-12-05 13:12:00 UTC
Hisec incursions was introduced, anoms got nerfed, people moved out of nullsec.

Shocking revelation.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Demonfuge Malevolent
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2011-12-05 13:24:06 UTC
I would add my agreement that the CSM needs to represent high-sec players better.

I would not make voting compulsory - many people choose not to vote - but having a vote screen on login is a good idea. It could have the option to "remind me later" or "no vote" but be able to access it in-game later if you change your mind.

If the list of players you could vote for had a little description/manifesto for each of them, e.g. "Chribba - I am a carebear who lives in high-sec and likes to trade, set up helpful websites", "The Mittani - I am an honourable null-sec dweller, please contract me your titan so I can check its fit", etc, it would help voters choose players they think would best represent them.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#134 - 2011-12-05 13:28:12 UTC
Demonfuge Malevolent wrote:
please contract me your titan so I can check its fit


Tell me how you would go about contracting a titan

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2011-12-05 13:38:04 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Fix My Lasers wrote:
Few facts:
- New BCs are useless on missions because they have no drones. Only Talos have them, but it is a blaster boat = useless too.
1st scrambling frig will be your death.

Solo, yes. Combine those with a tanking BC like, say, a drake, and I would assume you'd have a nice combo that still costs less than your average hisec tengu.

Disclaimer: I don't do missions, I think they're about as fun as watching paint dry. ymmv.

Fix My Lasers wrote:
- T1 laser crystals are useless. T2 or faction ones are the only valid choice for missions.

Why?
Fix My Lasers wrote:
Anyways this arguing won't help improving the game because no one listens and CSMs are busy fixing null.

I'd argue that they aren't just "fixing null", there's been a lot of changes that affect hisec as well, like the neutral repping issue, I believe, and literally tons of small UI and usability fixes.

However, they are probably spending more time trying to get CCP to fix null, because null was, and probably still is, in danger of stagnating hard. What was the last huge war you saw a report on the last 6-12 months? Have you seen the quality of posting that's been going on on sites such as kugu? Some threads there are literally threatening to become worse than most eve-o threads because literally the only thing they can argue about is who was most honourable, the guys selfdestructing dreads or the guys dropping titans and supercarriers.

It's in dire need of help before it goes below a critical mass because of things like the anom nerf which caused tons of 0.0 space to be vacated, and SOV systems which allowed IT Alliance to keep SOV several months after they'd essentially officially disbanded and left the area. And therefore it's the area of the game which I would expect to get the most attention for at least the next patch, because face it, eve online does not get any press whatsoever for mining or doing missions. It gets it for being a cold place, where backstabbing is rife, and whole swathes of space swap hands at gunpoint. If that part of the game goes poof, so does the entire game.

This isn't to say that I believe that empire is worthless, there's been tons of suggestions for adding valid career paths to living in hisec, and I support that. I'm just saying that right now, if nullsec hadn't been at least begun worked at again after about 2 years of seemingly nothing but apathy from CCP, I would've expected EVE to cease to exist in a few years, and CCP along with it.


Well mostly I agree with you, and yes, I moved out of null because there was nothing fun for me anymore and a pvp is a huge time consumption.
Still, high sec is a total boredom and I really want to have fun there.
It is very frustrating because there is nothing fun for you in EvE when you have 1-2 hrs per day for gaming time. Missions is the only choice.
Doing missions is not "as fun as watching paint dry. ymmv." It's like watching a turtle race or flirting with a hooker.

And T1 laser crystals are useless because you can't break Guristas tank without them. It takes a lot of time just to pop up one BS with 700+k bounty on it.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2011-12-05 13:39:19 UTC
Demonfuge Malevolent wrote:
I would add my agreement that the CSM needs to represent high-sec players better.

I would not make voting compulsory - many people choose not to vote - but having a vote screen on login is a good idea. It could have the option to "remind me later" or "no vote" but be able to access it in-game later if you change your mind.

If the list of players you could vote for had a little description/manifesto for each of them, e.g. "Chribba - I am a carebear who lives in high-sec and likes to trade, set up helpful websites", "The Mittani - I am an honourable null-sec dweller, please contract me your titan so I can check its fit", etc, it would help voters choose players they think would best represent them.

To be fair, there were tons of advertising over the fact it was time to vote for the CSM, and I believe there were quite a few ways for the average guy to go to read the CSM candidate manifesto, along with a questionaire that would tell you how close of a match you would be to any given candidate.

But I keep seeing thread after thread proclaiming that hisec needs to be represented better, etc. I have two questions which also never gets answered:

1) What, exactly, is it that the current CSM has done that makes some people literally sperg furiously about how the CSM is evil and must be replaced, voting mechanisms be changed etc etc etc?
2) What should the CSM have done differently, and why should these things have been prioritized?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Demonfuge Malevolent
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#137 - 2011-12-05 13:54:19 UTC
Pfft true, my bad. Meant to type "eject" :)
StillBorn CrackBaby
Doomheim
#138 - 2011-12-05 14:09:22 UTC
Lone Gunman wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Proposal One: voting the CSM must be compulsory, at least until people gets used to do so. Every player who logs in during election period must be forced to vote, either won't be allowed to reach the character selection screen. An option to vote later may be added, but only for a limited amount of chances. That certainly should increase total vote and the representivity of the CSM.


Go "F" yourself.

Since I have no control what CCP does and Neither does the CSM(See Black Ops) my refusal to participate in this lame "I get a free trip to Iceland" publics relations stunt is not to participate and now you want to take that away from me.

Blow me.

Strongly Agree. I pay my 15 bucks a month to play, I am not interested in a completely useles group of people who have no control, no authority and don't speak for me. Kiss my ass dipshit....XXX
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#139 - 2011-12-05 14:11:46 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
(...)

But I keep seeing thread after thread proclaiming that hisec needs to be represented better, etc. I have two questions which also never gets answered:

1) What, exactly, is it that the current CSM has done that makes some people literally sperg furiously about how the CSM is evil and must be replaced, voting mechanisms be changed etc etc etc?


I can't talk for other people. In my case, it was that the CSM cared to push forward the ABC issue on their own, without popular demand nor forum debate, right before the Incarna crisis. That broke my self-service-o-meter and made me wonder WTF was going through their minds.

Quote:
2) What should the CSM have done differently, and why should these things have been prioritized?


It is not to prioritize hisec's interests. It is TO PUT THEM ON THE BLOODY TABLE.

I have been reading almost every devblog for months, waiting to read something that gave me hope, and there is no hope. CCP is not even considering to add new content outside of nullsec. They are not even ASKING wether players would like to have it. And certainly the nullsec CSM is not going to worry about it, they are working to nerf hisec and WH (no ice, no ABC) in favor of nullsec as if the RMT and botting stemming from nullsec weren't bad enough.

So what is left for us to do? Leave in silence? Or make some noise before leaving?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2011-12-05 14:14:24 UTC
Fix My Lasers wrote:
It is very frustrating because there is nothing fun for you in EvE when you have 1-2 hrs per day for gaming time. Missions is the only choice.

I'm going to just disagree with you there, there are tons of things which can be fun if all you have is 1-2 hours pr day for gaming time, all you have to do is think a bit outside the box. If you wanted to, you could probably try to corner the ammo supply market in a mission hub. This shouldn't take that much time pr day to set up, hell you could even look up those who do missioning and make agreements with them directly. I'm sure they'd appreciate not having to fetch ammo or travel around to sell their loot/LP stuff etc.

Personally, I have 3 chars, I do PI in one system on one char, PVP on another char, and my third just sits in Jita and does nothing but market fuckery. In fact, the majority of my income is from the Jita char. And the only risk I take is when I gamble on a market going up instead of down.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat