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Last thread about CSM was closed for not being constructive... Take 2 on the CSM
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Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2011-12-05 05:44:03 UTC
XavierVE wrote:
CSM has always been a game-breaking joke. It's simply used as an avenue to gain insight on upcoming changes so alliance leaders can prepare their alliances ahead of time, getting a leg-up on everyone else. The CSM doesn't care about the health of the game, and that's not just the most current iteration, but every iteration. It's an intel-gathering tool, nothing more.

The CSM has never improved EVE, only the playerbase rising up and rioting/unsubbing was able to accomplish that.

The OP's overbearing post is pointless, there is no way to "improve" The CSM, other than simply getting rid of the entire process and ditching the lame PR stunt. Has nothing to do with null- or high- sec dwellers at all.


Actually OP said a good thing: making this vote system on a login screen.

IMO the best way to do this is to remove CSM at all and make a poll system insted of voting for useless people.
So one day you login and see a thing like:

Q: What kind of new ships do you want at the upcoming expansion?
[ ] - PvE
[ ] - PvP
[ ] - Give me both!
[ ] - I live in null, me wants crush carebears

And so on. CSM system is just useless as it is.
Those polls will be the best thing to do. At least it will be more useful.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2011-12-05 05:45:36 UTC
Meh. Scrap the CSM. I think past groups tried to do a decent job but now it's just meta gaming. Meta gaming done poorly. People only get so interested in something. If it gets too lame they just quit. It's a game. Nobody has to log in. They'll just leave when the game gets bad enough.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2011-12-05 05:50:40 UTC
Pavel Bidermann wrote:
Meh. Scrap the CSM. I think past groups tried to do a decent job but now it's just meta gaming. Meta gaming done poorly. People only get so interested in something. If it gets too lame they just quit. It's a game. Nobody has to log in. They'll just leave when the game gets bad enough.


It was always meta-gaming to certein level.

Any CSM at any age of EVE did not make anything against me. Sure they vouch for their place in the universe for the cause they have been elected.
Rykuss
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#64 - 2011-12-05 05:55:33 UTC
Working as intended. The players that campagin can also do a 180 from the platform they used to get elected, which is exactly what I feel the representatives I voted for did. Again, working as intended. As mentioned already, voting with your wallet is perhaps the best way to get your view across to CCP. Unsub, it won't kill you, and in the little box explain why.

If you start breaking out in hives, look over at your dusty games collection, dust one off and pop it in the drive. Have fun for a bit and maybe capture some of that nostalgia. Maybe there's a patch, expansion or a mod for it. If none of the above interests you, maybe stop reading the forums and play the game. Game forums, especially MMO's, are notorious for being full of egocentric chest beating morons and this forum is the champion of them all.

You, too, can be a Solid Gold dancer.
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#65 - 2011-12-05 06:08:06 UTC
Same krap, different day.
InB4L

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2011-12-05 06:14:17 UTC
I'm just poasting to say lol.

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2011-12-05 06:20:11 UTC
I agree that it has always been that way (meta gaming) to a certain extent. It's just that now there's no attempt to do anything that isn't self-serving and it's been killing the game. Even if any earlier work was deemed debatable as to it's contribution to the game, it's just destructive now.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#68 - 2011-12-05 06:23:43 UTC
Pavel Bidermann wrote:
It's just that now there's no attempt to do anything that isn't self-serving and it's been killing the game.
…such as?
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2011-12-05 06:49:29 UTC
Well, there's an entire forum of rage at the CSM for self-serving activities, but we can pretend that isn't there I guess. How about the idea to remove ABCs from wormholes when even they said they didn't have any hard information? How about the attempt to remove ice from high sec? Or how about the overall movement to nerf high sec and leave low and FW as as they attempted to move any activity thart generated a decent profit? That tactic would be the same as finding a flat tire on your car. To fix it you flatten the other three. All of them look the same so they must be working better. Those are very general statements and there's a lot more detail to them , but this isn't a secret. Even Hilmar, one of his last interviews, ended with him stating that (more politely) the CSM has been self serving and the CSM concept probably needs to be looked at. That, for a brief and wonderful moment, actually shut Mittens up. It was both amazing and welcome. Like I said, it's no secret.
Red Templar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2011-12-05 07:09:27 UTC
We need more threads like this one. Lately there wasnt enough CSM hysteria and these boards became boring.

BTW, i like how original post received a huge amount of likes. Clearly this is how true democracy should work. Though i would like the "hate" button as well.

[b]For Love. For Peace. For Honor.

For None of the Above.

For Pony![/b]
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2011-12-05 07:11:17 UTC
Red Templar wrote:
We need more threads like this one. Lately there wasnt enough CSM hysteria and these boards became boring.

BTW, i like how original post received a huge amount of likes. Clearly this is how true democracy should work. Though i would like the "hate" button as well.



True Democracy

Total Imbeciles become powerful because large pool of imbeciles vote for them.

/RL related/ I think i ll pass.. Oh wai... /RL related/
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#72 - 2011-12-05 07:20:12 UTC
Pavel Bidermann wrote:
Well, there's an entire forum of rage at the CSM for self-serving activities, but we can pretend that isn't there I guess. How about the idea to remove ABCs from wormholes when even they said they didn't have any hard information? How about the attempt to remove ice from high sec? Or how about the overall movement to nerf high sec and leave low and FW as as they attempted to move any activity thart generated a decent profit? That tactic would be the same as finding a flat tire on your car. To fix it you flatten the other three. All of them look the same so they must be working better. Those are very general statements and there's a lot more detail to them , but this isn't a secret. Even Hilmar, one of his last interviews, ended with him stating that (more politely) the CSM has been self serving and the CSM concept probably needs to be looked at. That, for a brief and wonderful moment, actually shut Mittens up. It was both amazing and welcome. Like I said, it's no secret.


I think the whole "self-serving CSM" ~conspiracy~ can be thrown out all in one go when the entire panel of nullsec delegates supports rebalancing of moon minerals and supercapitals.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Psychophantic
#73 - 2011-12-05 07:27:22 UTC
Get rid of them.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#74 - 2011-12-05 07:31:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Psychophantic wrote:
Get rid of them.


"I'm a badposting forum alt and I'm too dumb to get a proper hisec voting bloc, the CSM should be disbanded instead!!!!!!"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#75 - 2011-12-05 07:31:51 UTC
XavierVE wrote:
CSM has always been a game-breaking joke. It's simply used as an avenue to gain insight on upcoming changes so alliance leaders can prepare their alliances ahead of time, getting a leg-up on everyone else...


No one lives in hi-sec it's all just market, mission and mining bots.


Say, this game of making wild, unsubstantiated assertions is fun! You have 6 nipples! The Albanian Mafia controls the world pistachio market! Foxes have an airborne larval stage!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#76 - 2011-12-05 07:32:48 UTC
Pavel Bidermann wrote:
Well, there's an entire forum of rage at the CSM for self-serving activities


Such as?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#77 - 2011-12-05 07:33:14 UTC
GOONS ARE RUINING MY GAME BY MAKING IT BETTER

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2011-12-05 07:34:05 UTC
Andski wrote:
Psychophantic wrote:
Get rid of them.


"I'm too dumb to get a proper hisec voting bloc, the CSM should be disbanded instead!!!!!!"


Most importantly why should we who live in High sec. care ???
Unless they somehow manage to destroy high-sec "profitability" which is way lower then null, if you know what you are doing.
And chances for that are zero, since it would probably mean -70 percent of all accounts which is equal to company suicide.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#79 - 2011-12-05 07:34:09 UTC
Fix My Lasers wrote:
XavierVE wrote:
CSM has always been a game-breaking joke. It's simply used as an avenue to gain insight on upcoming changes so alliance leaders can prepare their alliances ahead of time, getting a leg-up on everyone else. The CSM doesn't care about the health of the game, and that's not just the most current iteration, but every iteration. It's an intel-gathering tool, nothing more.

The CSM has never improved EVE, only the playerbase rising up and rioting/unsubbing was able to accomplish that.

The OP's overbearing post is pointless, there is no way to "improve" The CSM, other than simply getting rid of the entire process and ditching the lame PR stunt. Has nothing to do with null- or high- sec dwellers at all.


Actually OP said a good thing: making this vote system on a login screen.

IMO the best way to do this is to remove CSM at all and make a poll system insted of voting for useless people.
So one day you login and see a thing like:

Q: What kind of new ships do you want at the upcoming expansion?
[ ] - PvE
[ ] - PvP
[ ] - Give me both!
[ ] - I live in null, me wants crush carebears

And so on. CSM system is just useless as it is.
Those polls will be the best thing to do. At least it will be more useful.



So CCP should ask the players their opinion on NDA'd changes?

Good thinking there.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#80 - 2011-12-05 07:35:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Pavel Bidermann wrote:
Well, there's an entire forum of rage at the CSM for self-serving activities, but we can pretend that isn't there I guess.
Since a consistent theme for those threads is that no-one can really put their finger on what supposed self-serving activities are going on, yes, we can.
Quote:
How about the idea to remove ABCs from wormholes when even they said they didn't have any hard information?
You mean the idea that they then ignored when some actual data came to light?
Quote:
How about the attempt to remove ice from high sec?
You mean the idea that CCP (not the CSM) put forward, and which they then modified to “some ice products should probably only be available outside of highsec” after they were given a bit of feedback?
Quote:
Or how about the overall movement to nerf high sec and leave low and FW as as they attempted to move any activity thart generated a decent profit?
You mean the movement that has existed since before the CSM was even invented and which has been driven by people from all parts of the game, and which, as a result, the CSM would do right to bring to the devs' attention? Still: such as? Do you have any actual examples of this from the CSM?
Quote:
Like I said, it's no secret.
…and yet so very lacking in any good examples beyond some general goon-based paranoia, whereas there are plenty of pretty obvious examples where these supposedly null-centric entities and representatives have lobbied pretty hard for things that most definitely are not in their own best interest.