Intergalactic Summit

That is why I described it as part of the realm of... belief, or faith...



Of that, I am not so convinced.

The Republic was founded after the Rebellion and the Amarr defeat. It was supported heavily by the Federation as we all know, and it adopted a similar model of government based on democratic principles.

To the Gallente, ideologically, it meant that the Minmatar were encouraged on the way to the freedom to choose how they want to be governed - which sometimes means for the Federation, that the choice would obviously be their democratic model. But more importantly, the creation of the Republic was probably also heavily supported by the Federation for very pragmatic reasons, the same way the Matari dissidents and rebels during the Rebellion were also financed by the Federation.

The Republic had first to emerge out of virtually nothing but scarce refugees, freed slaves, imperial colonies, etc. Still, the main purpose was to build a home for the free Matari before anything. The Republic was not designed at first as a tool of war against the Amarr Empire, or it would have mostly remained in the state of what freedom fighter groups are even today : armed warbands, and not a full fledged nation.

Up until Midular, what the Republic tried to achieve and succeeded at, was the integration into the CONCORD assembly, to the dismay of the Amarr delegates. Again, fighting against slavery was probably one of the founding blocs of the Republic, but it was far from the only one. Until the Matari chose to elect a retired freedom fighter leader, for whom the plight of the Matari revolved exclusively around their traditions and their kin still enslaved.

You're too quick to label confidence in that which isn't understood as faith. I'm surprised to see a member of the Amarrian faith use the term so casually. I don't understand how a graviton reactor works. I know they work because Caldari use them to power their ships. I would not say that I have "faith" in graviton reactors. To use the term for such a mundane purpose seems to cheapen it.

Let me point out what is the difference between being a slave and being marked with a 'bad' Voluval.

A slave is property. He is unable to plan his own future. He has no choice of what he gets to eat for lunch, breakfast and dinner. He has no choice on where he can go and what he can do about whatever crap he landed himself into.

A person with a 'bad' Voluval is, yes, socially ostracised. However, he is not property. He can plan his own future. He can react. He can choose what he has for breakfast, lunch and dinner. He can even decide if he wants to eat at this hour or to wait until the next. If he is ostracised someplace he has the choice to go to some other place where he won't be ostracised. In fact, he can decide on what he can do with his Voluval and how he is going to go around the restrictions.

A slave is not a driver of his own destiny. A person with a 'bad' Voluval is. The late president Karin Midular may be marked with the Ray of Matar, but she has a choice. She can choose to go against her mark or she can choose to go with the Mark and become a politician. Yes, there is such a thing as social pressure, but there is no actual stone wall preventing her from being anything else.

I think I can agree with some of those points but not all of them...

1) Agreed, albeit it may be more grey than that, depending on the type of slave we are talking about. For some, it is just another form of indenture that can be found pretty much everywhere in New Eden, Republic included.

2) And many disagree with, which, granted, makes it a heated debate, as usual. Actually, the Caldari State never claimed to recognize it as a 'moral travesty', but just an alien concept completely inefficient that they have no vested interested in whatsoever. As for the Republic, they recognize it as such only because they were the direct victims of it. To really believe that the Matari people have always found it abhorrent, I would really be curious to read sources on what was the stance of the Minamtar Empire on the matter before the Days of Darkness.





Yes... a difference can indeed be found in property.

But you might know that some slaves actually have more... 'rights', or at least freedom, than some commoners. Included what they want to eat, etc.

Comparing slavery and the voluval is absurd. So absurd that I must assume anyone who compares the two is either doing so dishonestly or is ignorant on an unbelievable scale.

A slave may have choices and 'freedoms', but always by the leave of his master. The choices of meals and clothing is as dictated by his master, either subtly or overtly. Every coin he makes belongs to his master. Every drop of sweat is his master's. He is not his own person, but his master's property after all. He doesn't even get to decide on what chain he gets to wear.

A free man does for his and his own. He gets to choose his own chains. His choice is limited only by his biology, imagination and economic status, and he still has the freedom to improve on either of these. The freedom to screw up, the freedom to choose one's own master and one's own bounds and responsibilities and one's own creed, the freedom to go right off the beaten path for good or ill, only a free man can do any of these. A slave is denied them.

Though really, I believe the main issue with the Amarr Empire is the eradication of culture on their part. Then again, it will be very difficult to subjugate slaves for long if they are allowed mindset and mentality that goes counter against their Amarrian master's. After all, to make a slave out of a man, he has to be convinced that he is the lesser, that he is property, and be made to think in a way that aligns with his master's will. The best way to do so is by eradicating his culture and his previous mindset, by lash or by scripture.

If the people of the Minmatar Empire could not be called a people of peace when the Amarrian's found them then who in history could?

I have not replaced God, God is much greater than anything I could ever say or do.

However,

Unlike the Amarr, the Matari spiritual belief does not demand that outsiders conform to it. It does not mandate conquest, assimilation or even missionary work.

Like the Caldari Way, the Matari belief system is focused internally and teaches more of a cultural and spiritual harmony than any kind of religious conformity.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm all for spreading the truth if you believe you hold the one, essential truth that all of humanity should know for their own salvation and benefit; but I take a strong stance against the method the Amarr have chosen to spread it.

I think it could work. As I see it, the Matari people are strong, determined, and stubborn, this means attempting to force a gallentean style system was doomed to failure because it was it wasn't the Matari way, at the same point we are stubborn enough to cling to a tribal republic that doesn't work very well because our strength and determination will carry it along and force it to work even if not very well.

This all tells me simply tells me that rather than telling the Matari to abandon their ways, we would need some way to show them leaders by example, and not just Brutor's like me but leaders from all of the tribes in all of the Industries too. Leaders that put thier industry and people ahead of politics and isk, and also work together in a United and diverse structure, while keeping their tribal identity. I personally think that the sanmatar giving up thier tribe actually makes them removed a bit from being relatable to.

The biggest question I would have on how to do it, would be what form it would take. A sort of political party? A nation ran by capsulers? A corporation perhaps? A school even might make sense. There are of options and I am not sure which ones would work best.

To add another question to this, what would be the biggest benefit to our people? We definitely have the resolve to accomplish great things, its just a matter of focus really.