Warfare & Tactics

I'm just about to get back from a long deployment, and starting to catch up on what's been happening in eve. I decided I'm tired of being a carebear and want to get into PvP. I started looking at the common ways people get into PvP and learn the experience, and I really liked the lose 20 frigates plan. But, one of the things that caught my attention in Crucible, is they gave destroyers a HUGE buff.

I know the 20 frigate plan works. Many have praised its ability to teach a new PvPer how to not fear losing his ship, and other valuable lessons like using transversal and range to minimize damage. But, with the buff to destroyers would getting a hefty stack of destroyers be more beneficial, for their low cost, and increased selection of engage-able targets? Also, I’m sure destroyers are going to be all the new craze for the next month at least, which makes me even more pessimistic about taking a T1 frigate into hostile space solo.

I’m not worried about the increased cost, I just want to get the most I can out of my time and isk.

Well NOW it seems obvious. I guess I just needed to read it. Thanks for that.

Do you suggest any particular ship? I’m already trained Gallente, so something along those lines would be great. Right now I’m thinking either an ishkur or a thorax as my learning ship.

Both of those are good choices, but I would add the Vexor to the list and, given that you are looking at a t2 frigate (which costs about a bc after you take into account platinum insurance), I would also add the brutix to the list.

I am personally not a fan of the thorax and did most of my PVP learning in a brutix.

[Thorax, Tight Fit]

Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II

Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Patterned Stasis Web I
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive

800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Vespa EC-600 x5

Not terrible, as the name says, it is a close fit, I suggest dropping gun sizes if you lack the fitting skills to make it run (Neutron -->ion, then ions--> electrons)

Alternatively, a shield fit that will help you once you realize how much of a pain it is to move that slow

[Thorax, Shield]

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive

Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Vespa EC-600 x5

The big problem with the thorax is that, as a blaster boat, you really, really want a capacitor booster. Hence why I really like the 4 mids on a brutix.

For the brutix, you can use its bonuses and active tank (which adds a ton that you now need to pay attention to; it is also fun and makes you look like more of a badass), or just fit a shield buffer tank and go all out gank.

[Brutix, Solo]

Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Electron Blaster II
Heavy Electron Blaster II
Heavy Electron Blaster II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800

Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Vespa EC-600 x5

or

[Brutix, Shield Gank]

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

10MN MicroWarpdrive II /OFFLINE
Invulnerability Field II
Warp Scrambler II
Large Shield Extender II

Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Vespa EC-600 x5

I am personally not a huge fan of frigates of any variety, or the myrm or the the vexor, though they are good ships...this has something to do with me forgetting that I have drones regardless of what ship I am in (I lost an alliance t1 fit t1 cruiser tourny (in the semifinals) because I forgot to launch drones...I kinda deserved it because I had found a loophole in the rules and was using a strong exile booster ]. Later I lost a proteus to concord (in concord sov, they are the faction police) carring the extra boosters back to highsec )

Oops, that was supposed to be incursus, not ishkur. Either way, I love the ishkur and it will likely be a ship I'll fly when I get the hang of things.

Thanks a lot for the fits Demon. I'll likely skip over the BC's for now though.

Krios, the thing that makes me unsure about destroyers, is while they can put out a lot of damage, they don't seem to be able to take any. It doesn't seem like the sort of ship that would be good to learn in. I'll still try it out though, I'm more or less just explaining my thoughts while I absorb the advice you're all giving me

Honestly, when you're starting out PvPing nothing is going to feel like it can take any damage. A destroyer will do just as well as anything else, especially with the buffs they just got. Destroyers are also good because of the massive DPS they can have, which lets them take out targets before taking too much damage themselves.

Go buy and fit out 5 destroyers and go lose them. The whole time be thinking about what is actually going on in your fights and try to analyze what went right and what went wrong. At the end of those 5 ships, stop and think about your experiences. If you feel like there's still more you're learning, get some more and start all over again. But if you feel like it's not really helping you learn anything, grab a new hull instead.

The key to this whole thing is to find something you can afford to lose a pile of them and learn WHY you lost them. As long as it doesn't hurt your wallet to lose the ship, it's a good ship to use.

It also mught help to read other people's accounts of their 20 frigs they lost too (the "Punisher Plan" comes to mind).

And above all, remember to have fun. If you're not having fun, do something different.

Came here to say something like this, as I'm about to attempt a similar thing (not necessarily with destroyers). 20 is a popular number, but it does rather seem to assume you either know you like the chosen hull, or want to learn to fly a hull you don't like if that ends up being the case. I don't think there's any particular need to limit yourself to 20 of the same ship if you decide after 5 or 10 or so that it's not the style you want.

The lose-20-frigates method (which I recommend) isn't meant to teach you everything you need to know about PVP, but rather to teach you the most foundational things you need to know at the lowest cost. You will learn things you may have already heard before, but didn't understand or didn't really believe. Your conviction will grow about certain basic principles. And you will learn stuff that is not ship-related (like using the directional scanner, or timers, or gate aggro mechanics, etc.) while flying cheap hulls rather than expensive ones.

By the time you've lost 20 T1 frigates, hopefully you will have killed a number of destroyers, cruisers, and even a few battlecruisers or T2 frigates--that's right, YOU, a relative PVP noob. This should teach you something useful when it's YOU flying the destroyers, cruisers, battlecruisers, and T2 frigates (e.g. stay alert, fit your ship well, have enough skills to defend yourself against a PVP noob in a T1 frig).

Ultimately, you just need to play the game the way that maximizes the fun for YOU. Only you know what balance of RL cash, time spent hunting or in PVP vs. time spent earning ISK, and time spent scouring the Internet for fits and tips is most satisfying for you.

In the case of a Catalyst BS amounts of damage...till someone get a drone on you anyway

PvP doesn't require you be solo, in fact if you are 9/10 times you are placing yourself at a disadvantage. Beacause a top "solo" PvPers have a falcon alt in system and a booster alt in a POS and then NEVER leave the one system they live in. So sure you can solo, but for the most part its a matter of getting lucky, and I don't have the patience personally to spend 5 hours hunting to maybe get a kill or two and more than likely get run over by a small gang.

If you can get a MWD web and a scram on a Rifter.....there is a place for you in most gangs, better if you can fly an interceptor...or even a bomber.

I much prefer small gang stuff myself and I learned it mostly by just trying random crap until I started to buy a clue (its all I have to this day really).

Maybe solo is not requirement but it is how I want to do it, at least for now. Regarding falcon alts or whatever: it is their game, I won't allow it to define my game.