Market Discussions

These multiboxing leveraged accounts are reasonable due to inefficiencies and QoL one has to undergo to operate them.

Don't be surprised that people using Overlays and VFX get banned retroactively in three months' time.



That is indeed the case, hence ISBotters are separated from us.



With all-time activity lows, it most certainly is relevant how much ISK enters the economy from accounts that are chart noise, and which assets it targets.

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Back to 2008.

CCP has learned the lessons from late 2011-YC113 till now.

We'll recover.

You're missing the point on purpose.

Enjoy the game, I most certainly will.

It is relevant because in this economy there are, in the immediate to short run, potentially binding supply constraints. So if more ISK flows into the New Eden economy, then you have "too much" ISK "chasing" all goods in the economy. While the increased output in minerals may be partially matched by the increased ISK, it is not at all given that that is where all the extra ISK entering the economy will go. In fact, I highly doubt every ratting with ISBoxer pulling in...IDK, says 12 billion a month over and above his PLEX expense is going to be buying 12 billion of mined materials. Maybe, but it strikes me as an unlikely outcome.

Since moon goo production is capped if we hit that cap due to extra ISK entering the New Eden economy we end up where the supply curve is "vertical" or more precisely the supply price elasticity is inelastic. That is price increases will NOT result in anymore moon goo entering the market. In that case, we can see prices rising rapidly in the moon goo market and also the down stream markets (e.g., T2 component markets, the T2 module and ship markets). To make matters less clear though, we have the potential drop in mineral prices as well a recent change to research/invention. For example, the T1 component going into the T2 item may be cheaper thus offsetting some of the cost increase due to moon goo price increases. Also, if one no longer needs to spend 300 million a month on a POS that too could help offset the price increase. Additionally, CCP reworked their moon goo requirements which dropped the price of technetium as well.

So, to see if ISBoxer is having a negative impact on the economy via accelerating inflation it would take a considerable amount of analysis and data. You's have to control for all of the factors I described above. Just to give you an idea it would probably have to be done using what is known as panel data. Basically cross sectional data over time, possibly even at the account level.

And when you have something that has the potential to result in increasing rates at which ISK enters the New Eden economy, then yeah it also has the potential not just cause price fluctuations, but price fluctuations in one direction, upwards. And programs like ISBoxer were tolerated. My guess is because a few players used them and it wasn't an issue. Some players used it in instances that helped move ISK around--i.e. it created no new ISK, so not a problem. Some might have used it in PvP which actually helps in some regard as it destroys in game assets (i.e. it sinks minerals thus helping to bolster demand for minerals) and in some instances may help reduce the rate at which ISK enters the game (e.g., killing ratters). But as its popularity grew it reached a point where CCP felt it had to act for the sake of the in-game economy.

So, no I'm not saying anything at all about price fluctuations, but about in game inflation rates, money supply growth rates and the like. As usual you completely missed the target.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not ISBoxer exists. My issue isn't with the proposition that moon goo rises in price, my issue is with his idea that price rises are the fault of ISBoxer. There are countless other reasons for the price rises which he ignores simply because he's butthurt about ISBoxer and will complain about it at every turn. Seriously, read his posts. Everything is ISBoxer this and ISBoxer that. In reality ISBoxer had such a small effect on the economy that much of the game barely noticed it being banned. The reality is that most ISK coming into the economy is coming in through AFK ratting from null groups, which doesn't require ISBoxer and never has.

First, I never said much of this Lucas. The potential for supply of moon goo to be inelastic is independent of ISBoxer. I did not write anything to indicate other wise.

And yes, prices could rise for other reasons, but when the rate of money growth is greater than the growth of goods and services then you have inflation. We don't have a nearly 220 page threadnaught about CCP changing broadcasting/multiplexing for ISBoxer without ISBoxing players feeling they have "lost" something. I know you have argued that ISBoxer does nothing to increase ISK entering the New Eden economy, but I think you are flat out wrong...220 page threadnaught and all that.

Yeah, many people ratting in null don't NEED or REQUIRE ISBoxer, the question is can a player with ISBoxer, pushing 1 button to kill rats make ISK at a faster rate than a player without ISBoxer? I find your positions and arguments in the ISBoxer (stickied) thread laughable (you are so perfect with tiled screens you can issue commands to 8 clients in 1 second without error, but if you use round robin you'll make an error).

Edit: Right, rite or write. Sheesh.