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Raven Navy Issue vs Scorpion Navi Issue vs Rattlesnake | Alternatives?
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Yuri Gagarijn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-04-19 10:48:09 UTC
Heyho,

as you can see i want to buy a new mission missilenboat, but I couldn't find an actual thread about this topic, so i made this one.

What i know about the ships is, that the raven has alot of dps but a weak tank and the scorpion/rattlesnake has a better tank but not so good dps.

Can you tell me the strengths and weaknesses of each ship? Are there mentionable alternatives?

Thanks

PS: sorry for my english, im not a native speaker.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-04-19 11:07:12 UTC
Rattlesnake has more tank and dps than both of them. Only downside is that it's a mixed weapon system.

Scorp has good tank but bad application, you will eventually need to sacrifice tank for target painters

navy raven has the best base application with the 25% reduction to explosion radius and has the same base DPS as the scorp

Overall rattlesnake is cheaper and better than the other two but requires much more sp.

Art of Explosions
Yuri Gagarijn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-04-19 11:11:38 UTC
How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2015-04-19 11:36:48 UTC
Yuri Gagarijn wrote:
How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months.


I would say go for the raven and use it for level 3 missions to get used to the ship class.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#5 - 2015-04-19 12:00:42 UTC
listen to Baltec and go with the raven,
there are plenty of people (myself included) that would love to **** with an inexperienced pilot in a faction battleship but ignore a raven.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2015-04-19 12:18:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Odithia
Yuri Gagarijn wrote:
How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months.

In adition to basic core skills (navigation, targeting, engineering, shield, etc.), you need both solid drone and missile skills.
That's two weapon system to get to battleship level and it takes a while.

I would get solid core and missiles skills then start with a regular Raven then sell it and get a Rattlesnake once drones skills are good enough.
By good drone skills I mean all support at 4, drone interfacing 5 and possibly heavy and sentry drones 5.
Yuri Gagarijn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-04-19 14:14:56 UTC
When you talk about the Raven you mean the Raven Navy Issue, right?
SirElwood Blues
Fuxi Legion
Fraternity.
#8 - 2015-04-19 14:15:25 UTC
Skill good for a cruise raven, and while you're comfortable flying it, train the Golem. It's THE beast to do missions in.
Rexxorr
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-04-19 14:20:45 UTC
So, just starting out with low skill points, I suggest the following progression,
navy scorp -> navy raven-> golem


For the next ship line
machariel-> vargur


As far as the rattlesnake, I find it slow and far to micromanagy to
get anywhere close to its potential EFT dps.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-04-19 14:55:49 UTC
Yuri Gagarijn wrote:
When you talk about the Raven you mean the Raven Navy Issue, right?


No, standard Raven, then Golem skip both Navy Raven & Scorpion. When you have solid drone skills you could try and have some fun with Rattler.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Yuri Gagarijn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-04-19 15:09:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Yuri Gagarijn
The RattleS already does more damage when i have both BS skills on 3.
Lets say a launcher does 100 dps (for example):

Scorpion Navi Issue= 6 Launcher = 600dps
RS = 5 Launcher = 500dps + gallente bs skill = 650dps

Am i right with this?

Also the RS is much more afforable than the RNI or the SNI and has a better tank + i can tain drones over time so i get that dps too.

Did i oversee something or is the Rattlesnake the cheapest/best ship.
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#12 - 2015-04-19 15:16:59 UTC
There have been many, many posts here on the Rattlesnake, CNR, Raven, and Scorp. You just really bother to look, or you didn't look very hard.

As you are only a 2 month player, I think you better wait until you get into any BS. With low SPs, which means poor dps, poor tank, and poor support skills, you will most llikely lose it. Being at a young tender age in EVE, you may not handle losing all what you have earned in an instant. Old adage, even if you can afford it doesn't mean you should fly it.

Stay in a BC, if you are even at that point, and do L3s.

Grasshopper, you will know when you are ready, when you don't have to ask.

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#13 - 2015-04-19 15:25:54 UTC
Yuri Gagarijn wrote:
How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months.


I don't think that is the right question in this case.

The ship information will tell you what you need to train to fly a Rattlesnake but the thing is, you are in for a huge disappointment if you don't a few years more of skills in your sheet.

When you try to do the same thing with three very different ships, you will be disappointed too.

The Raven (tech one) is a fast moving kiting ship.

The Navy Raven is and improved Raven.

The Navy Scorpion is an improved Rokh in a Scorpion hull.

And the Rattlesnake is the last and higest improvement of a Navy Raven with some extra treats and tradeoffs.

The Golem is a specialized tech2 boat, which is no improvement of anything.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2015-04-19 16:49:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Yuri Gagarijn wrote:
How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months.


1) I would say go for the raven

2) and use it for level 3 missions to get used to the ship class.

1 is good advice.
2 is bad advice.

What I find strange about the OP questions is that it sounds like OP does not use missile ships for L1, 2 and 3 missions... Which is strange because that is where "normal" people learn about balancing tank and gank. Which brings us to my recommendation.

Since OP is obviously clueless, the best ship for OP is Navy Scorp. Why?
1) It has good tank that will likely keep clueless OP alive long enough to learn what the "normal" people learned doing L1, 2 and 3. I see the clueless OP dieing quiet easily in Navy Raven. And Rattle requires good advanced drone skills (and reasonably good missile skills) that the clueless OP obviously does not have.
2) It has good gank, but it uses single weapon system, cruise missiles. Not great gank like Navy Raven or Rattle, but good enough to do the job, to learn about gank and tank, and with that experience "under the belt" the OP can then decide:
2a) More gank, less tank cruise missile Navy Raven.
2b) More gank, more tank, split weapon systems (sentry drones+cruise missiles) and a longer training time Rattlesnake.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-04-19 17:13:15 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Yuri Gagarijn wrote:
How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months.


I don't think that is the right question in this case.

The ship information will tell you what you need to train to fly a Rattlesnake but the thing is, you are in for a huge disappointment if you don't a few years more of skills in your sheet.

When you try to do the same thing with three very different ships, you will be disappointed too.

The Raven (tech one) is a fast moving kiting ship.

The Navy Raven is and improved Raven.

The Navy Scorpion is an improved Rokh in a Scorpion hull.

And the Rattlesnake is the last and higest improvement of a Navy Raven with some extra treats and tradeoffs.

The Golem is a specialized tech2 boat, which is no improvement of anything.


so much bleurgh in this post =S

Do you know how much of this is wrong?

Art of Explosions
Valkin Mordirc
#16 - 2015-04-19 17:19:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
Yuri Gagarijn wrote:
The RattleS already does more damage when i have both BS skills on 3.
Lets say a launcher does 100 dps (for example):

Scorpion Navi Issue= 6 Launcher = 600dps
RS = 5 Launcher = 500dps + gallente bs skill = 650dps

Am i right with this?

Also the RS is much more afforable than the RNI or the SNI and has a better tank + i can tain drones over time so i get that dps too.

Did i oversee something or is the Rattlesnake the cheapest/best ship.


You forgot to add the 500DPS to 600 dps from the two sentries or heavies. The Rattlesnake is a Drone/Missile ship.


Honestly you seem to be making a common mistake. Fly what you want. But the "Battleship Rush" most newbro seems to be the case.

Bigger isn't always better.


EDIT: Yeah your totally rushing into battleships, I would stop and stick into a CBC if your doing lvl 3's. Battleships are skill intesive and you need a large about of core skills be they become remotely usefull.
#DeleteTheWeak
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-04-19 21:02:35 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Yuri Gagarijn wrote:
How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months.


I don't think that is the right question in this case.

The ship information will tell you what you need to train to fly a Rattlesnake but the thing is, you are in for a huge disappointment if you don't a few years more of skills in your sheet.

When you try to do the same thing with three very different ships, you will be disappointed too.

The Raven (tech one) is a fast moving kiting ship.

The Navy Raven is and improved Raven.

The Navy Scorpion is an improved Rokh in a Scorpion hull.

And the Rattlesnake is the last and higest improvement of a Navy Raven with some extra treats and tradeoffs.

The Golem is a specialized tech2 boat, which is no improvement of anything.


so much bleurgh in this post =S

Do you know how much of this is wrong?


It is wrong.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#18 - 2015-04-19 22:25:17 UTC
Rattlesnake is king.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#19 - 2015-04-20 08:11:08 UTC
If you've got any experience with the standard Raven then most likely the Navy Scorpion will be the most familiar to you. It does have a much stronger tank (with additional midslots and the resist bonus) and it is unlikely that most (being used to Cruise Missiles) will miss the range bonus (does anyone use Torps anymore?).

The Navy Raven has slightly more tank than the standard Raven (more HP and an additional midslot) but also has the full eight launchers and that damage application bonus which will tend to make the missiles hit harder. While with maximum skills the bonuses of the various missile ships gives them all the same effective launchers (the Navy Scorp has 4/3 x 6 = 8 effective launchers due to its RoF bonus...etc.) the Navy Raven gets that damage at lower skill levels. For the less experienced pilot the Navy Raven is likely the way to go.

The Rattlesnake has a damage type specific bonus and ends up with fewer effective launchers (7.5) than the other two suggested options despite this...
However the Rattler is arguably more like a Dominix than a Raven - while the other two use drones primarily as a defensive system, to clear off frigates and so forth, the Rattler will want heavy drones (Heavy Drones, Sentry Drones or the Gecko) and will use them much more aggressively. There are people who fly the Rattler entirely without missiles (I wouldn't recommend it but they seem to feel the benefits are sufficient).

So, as a three month old character, I would probably recommend the Navy Raven to you. It will offer a significant improvement in performance of course, but it will also feel most familiar to you. The Navy Scorp would be my second choice - its stronger tank may make things easier but it's probably a challenge for a newer player to balance this with the damage potential.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#20 - 2015-04-20 20:43:26 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
so much bleurgh in this post =S

Do you know how much of this is wrong?


enlighten us

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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