These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Continuious Wardec ...................................................
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Black Pedro
Mine.
#41 - 2015-04-16 06:17:24 UTC
Maki Osa wrote:
Miss Dallocort wrote:
Honestly I love that the sandbox allows for this kind of thing and that if they wardec ever industry corp more haulers will be used and maybe the market prices will increase but when it's my corp getting held up it's more than annoying. Especially now that my weekly profit is less than 500m when I was brining in around 6b.



Wait, you were making 6 billion, but won't pay 300 million (or hire someone to take out the trash for you?) and as a result are losing 5.5 billion in profit?

Yeah, this. Put your misplaced pride aside and pay them. If they are a PvP group, maybe even hire them to provide protection in the future if they have a reputation and you think they will honour an agreement. Don't listen to the carebears going on about principles or some theory that denying kills will work - that is a suboptimal strategy in a game where is extortion is accepted gameplay. Your opportunity cost is too high to take some "high-road" strategy where you turtle and lose that much profits, not to mention boring. Pay them to go away, or hire someone else protect you (a couple of that 6 billion will buy you the best mercenaries around) and get back to business.

What carebears who go on about "grief decs" don't always understand is that sometimes (actually often) the point of a wardec is not to farm easy kills, but rather to disrupt the industrial operations of your competitors. If you close up shop and choose not to play on principle, your opponents have already won. This case is a perfect example of that as that 5.5B ISK market share is now going to someone else for the low cost of 50M ISK.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Musashi IV
Off-World Mining
#42 - 2015-04-16 09:18:59 UTC
Create an alt and make him the owner of your corp. Have all members quit the corp. Play this way until the war dec expires. Do this everytime they war dec you until they get tired of wasing time and money.
Musashi IV
Off-World Mining
#43 - 2015-04-16 09:24:04 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Maki Osa wrote:
Miss Dallocort wrote:
Honestly I love that the sandbox allows for this kind of thing and that if they wardec ever industry corp more haulers will be used and maybe the market prices will increase but when it's my corp getting held up it's more than annoying. Especially now that my weekly profit is less than 500m when I was brining in around 6b.



Wait, you were making 6 billion, but won't pay 300 million (or hire someone to take out the trash for you?) and as a result are losing 5.5 billion in profit?

Yeah, this. Put your misplaced pride aside and pay them. If they are a PvP group, maybe even hire them to provide protection in the future if they have a reputation and you think they will honour an agreement. Don't listen to the carebears going on about principles or some theory that denying kills will work - that is a suboptimal strategy in a game where is extortion is accepted gameplay. Your opportunity cost is too high to take some "high-road" strategy where you turtle and lose that much profits, not to mention boring. Pay them to go away, or hire someone else protect you (a couple of that 6 billion will buy you the best mercenaries around) and get back to business.

What carebears who go on about "grief decs" don't always understand is that sometimes (actually often) the point of a wardec is not to farm easy kills, but rather to disrupt the industrial operations of your competitors. If you close up shop and choose not to play on principle, your opponents have already won. This case is a perfect example of that as that 5.5B ISK market share is now going to someone else for the low cost of 50M ISK.


What happens when you give a mouse a cookie? He will want a glass off milk! They will keep war decing you becouse its fun for them. Make an alt the owner of your corp and everyone quit the corp. Play like this until the war dec expires. Do this everytime they war dec you until they get tired of wasting time and money.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#44 - 2015-04-16 09:45:20 UTC
Musashi IV wrote:
What happens when you give a mouse a cookie? He will want a glass off milk! They will keep war decing you becouse its fun for them. Make an alt the owner of your corp and everyone quit the corp. Play like this until the war dec expires. Do this everytime they war dec you until they get tired of wasting time and money.
Incorrect. They will keep wardeccing him because they are disrupting a multi-billion ISK industrial operation. Folding corp works fine for missioners or miners with no need of in-space assets, but if you fold corp and set up a new one to launch your POS they will just wardec the new corp.

It might work if they are just randomly wardeccing people and they may lose interest, but if they have targeted him because of his industrial output (which a perma-warddec against a 2-man corp suggests), he is losing far too much income, and playing right into their hands by trying to wait them out. They are literally making money each week he lets this go on.

Pay them off or hire some mercenaries to protect you.

And of interest: to all the carebears out there that have gotten used to folding and reforming corps to shed wardecs, this is just a taste of what is to come. Once the new structures are in place and providing bonuses to other things than just industry (like mining/missioning etc,), all highsec corps using these bonuses will be much more vulnerable to wardecs. These new structures will usher in a new golden age for highsec mecernaries as people are forced to fight over these structures.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#45 - 2015-04-16 09:46:57 UTC
Miss Dallocort wrote:
Honestly I love that the sandbox allows for this kind of thing and that if they wardec ever industry corp more haulers will be used and maybe the market prices will increase but when it's my corp getting held up it's more than annoying. Especially now that my weekly profit is less than 500m when I was brining in around 6b.
How have you let it affect you this much?

What you need to do is get an alt corp on unknown alts set up, and between that and NPC corps get up and running just as well as you ever were. Then repeatedly wind them up from your wardecced characters. Your aim is so that they never drop the wardec and continue paying fees to wardec your now irrelevant corp.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#46 - 2015-04-16 10:38:33 UTC
Zealous Miner wrote:
Miss Dallocort wrote:
Small corporations are useful for people that don't want to join a huge group but that have the isk to support their activites with pos's and other things that require corps to do.

Guess you've never heard of the phrase "Strength in numbers."

One of the downsides of being in a small corporation is that you are a prime target for pirates and certain unsavory fellows who would like to ruin your day. Sorry, but this is the cost of the decisions you have made in this game.

Speaking of which: Where is Cannibal Kane at?What?



really thats why big corporations/blocs tell you to avoid highsec during wardecs, they could easily outnumber wardeccders 10/1 but they dont bother

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Brutus Utama
State War Academy
Caldari State
#47 - 2015-04-16 11:02:00 UTC
This happened to my corp after a few weeks we got bored and moved to null sec not seen them since...
Jenshae Chiroptera
#48 - 2015-04-16 11:05:33 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
really thats why big corporations/blocs tell you to avoid highsec during wardecs, they could easily outnumber wardeccders 10/1 but they dont bother
I know of a corp that pretends to be a mining corp so that they draw war decs.
They currently have their hands full assisting others but it is hilarious when people pay to get their faces kicked in by a seemingly vulnerable little group. Twisted

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2015-04-16 11:06:01 UTC
Miss Dallocort wrote:
Honestly I love that the sandbox allows for this kind of thing and that if they wardec ever industry corp more haulers will be used and maybe the market prices will increase but when it's my corp getting held up it's more than annoying. Especially now that my weekly profit is less than 500m when I was brining in around 6b.
Since you mentioned hauling, not mining, I'm assuming you're a manufacturer.

How can a wardec cut your profits that much?

Small stuff --> get a blockade runner, laugh at them

Medium stuff --> use the proper T1 industrial with MWD+cloak and insta-dock, insta-undock bookmarks, laugh at them

Big stuff --> use Red Frog, laugh at them


Or, obviously, use an out-of-corp hauler.


Please explain how the wardec cut your profits, I really can't understand. From what little I know of that bizarre place called highsec, wardecs can only significantly disrupt mining operations, anything else you should be able to carry on doing just fine (I'm also assuming you don't have POSs).

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#50 - 2015-04-16 11:19:22 UTC
If you bother moving wardecs don't even significantly disrupt mining operations, just dock when you see them in local, same as a neut in local in Null.
Hence why I'm starting to suspect this is actually the Wardec corp trying to scare people into paying their ransoms.
Miss Dallocort
Doomheim
#51 - 2015-04-16 11:37:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Dallocort
Maki Osa wrote:
Miss Dallocort wrote:
Honestly I love that the sandbox allows for this kind of thing and that if they wardec ever industry corp more haulers will be used and maybe the market prices will increase but when it's my corp getting held up it's more than annoying. Especially now that my weekly profit is less than 500m when I was brining in around 6b.



Wait, you were making 6 billion, but won't pay 300 million (or hire someone to take out the trash for you?) and as a result are losing 5.5 billion in profit?


Not exactly, I overexaggerate my losses slightly, it really depends how much effort I put into setting up contracts and organising jobs.

Problem is everything becomes a lot slower paced when there is a war.


Rastafarian God wrote:
This is called Milking. We've had this happen more times then I can count. There are a lot of people that just go down the list and dec EVERYONE that is smaller then they are. The fact that they are sticking with it this long is odd though.

They are trying to milk 2 things. Isk and kills. Do not give them either for any reason and do not respond to them at all under any circumstances. Make them think you are not even aware of what they are doing other then the fact they can never find you in space.

the fact that they are still deccing you leads me to believe that you have exchanged E-mails, or chatted back and forth. STOP THAT!! They will get bored and move along. People like this usually have several decs at one time.

Although people that do it to us quickly find out that they only suffer losses from straggers or nothing at all. But we PVP. and are sneaky as ****. For you.. Just make them think you dont play and they will stop.



There was only a mail exchange at the start when they informed us they would only end the war when we paid the ransom.

I replied saying that we would not be paying.


Quote:
Quote:

Wait, you were making 6 billion, but won't pay 300 million (or hire someone to take out the trash for you?) and as a result are losing 5.5 billion in profit?

Yeah, this. Put your misplaced pride aside and pay them. If they are a PvP group, maybe even hire them to provide protection in the future if they have a reputation and you think they will honour an agreement. Don't listen to the carebears going on about principles or some theory that denying kills will work - that is a suboptimal strategy in a game where is extortion is accepted gameplay. Your opportunity cost is too high to take some "high-road" strategy where you turtle and lose that much profits, not to mention boring. Pay them to go away, or hire someone else protect you (a couple of that 6 billion will buy you the best mercenaries around) and get back to business.

What carebears who go on about "grief decs" don't always understand is that sometimes (actually often) the point of a wardec is not to farm easy kills, but rather to disrupt the industrial operations of your competitors. If you close up shop and choose not to play on principle, your opponents have already won. This case is a perfect example of that as that 5.5B ISK market share is now going to someone else for the low cost of 50M ISK.
[/quote]


I have no reason to believe they will honour anything. They seem like the kind of group that would just ignore the surrender even after sending the isk.
thatonepersone
Black Jack 0-1
#52 - 2015-04-16 11:52:36 UTC
There is actually a surrender mechanic that makes it so they can't dec you again for some time after you pay the surrender fee.
Miss Dallocort
Doomheim
#53 - 2015-04-16 11:55:14 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Miss Dallocort wrote:
Honestly I love that the sandbox allows for this kind of thing and that if they wardec ever industry corp more haulers will be used and maybe the market prices will increase but when it's my corp getting held up it's more than annoying. Especially now that my weekly profit is less than 500m when I was brining in around 6b.
Since you mentioned hauling, not mining, I'm assuming you're a manufacturer.

How can a wardec cut your profits that much?

Small stuff --> get a blockade runner, laugh at them

Medium stuff --> use the proper T1 industrial with MWD+cloak and insta-dock, insta-undock bookmarks, laugh at them

Big stuff --> use Red Frog, laugh at them


Or, obviously, use an out-of-corp hauler.


Please explain how the wardec cut your profits, I really can't understand. From what little I know of that bizarre place called highsec, wardecs can only significantly disrupt mining operations, anything else you should be able to carry on doing just fine (I'm also assuming you don't have POSs).



It's not just that we don't make as much it's also that we have been playing other games in the mean time.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#54 - 2015-04-16 12:00:30 UTC
thatonepersone wrote:
There is actually a surrender mechanic that makes it so they can't dec you again for some time after you pay the surrender fee.
For a short amount of time only. But by paying you set a precedent that you are willing to pay to be left alone, encouraging them to come after you more either directly or with an alt corp.

I've had many a wardec on some of my highsec trading/indy corps, and I always make sure they know they will be paying a wardec and getting no kills, no tears and not affecting my ability to operate. This tends to get them to leave you alone permanently as there's no reason for them to waste the isk wardeccing you if you simply don't care.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#55 - 2015-04-16 12:02:24 UTC
Miss Dallocort wrote:

I have no reason to believe they will honour anything. They seem like the kind of group that would just ignore the surrender even after sending the isk.
You don't have a choice if you are losing as much as you claim you are. You either cut a deal with them, or fight. Ok, you could flee to lowsec or a WH but I guess that isn't in the cards. So pay them some tribute - it is a small fraction of what you make - and then start putting aside a little profit each week for a 'merc fund' to hire reputable mercenaries to defend you next time they or someone else tries this. Or skip that, and go right to hiring some mercenaries and get your operation back on-line and the ISKies flowing.

If they are really wardeccing you to disrupt your industrial operation you have no choice but to cut a deal, put up a defense, or leave highsec. Your current strategy isn't working and you are just going to bore yourself out of the game.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Miss Dallocort
Doomheim
#56 - 2015-04-16 12:05:38 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Miss Dallocort wrote:

I have no reason to believe they will honour anything. They seem like the kind of group that would just ignore the surrender even after sending the isk.
You don't have a choice if you are losing as much as you claim you are. You either cut a deal with them, or fight. Ok, you could flee to lowsec or a WH but I guess that isn't in the cards. So pay them some tribute - it is a small fraction of what you make - and then start putting aside a little profit each week for a 'merc fund' to hire reputable mercenaries to defend you next time they or someone else tries this. Or skip that, and go right to hiring some mercenaries and get your operation back on-line and the ISKies flowing.

If they are really wardeccing you to disrupt your industrial operation you have no choice but to cut a deal, put up a defense, or leave highsec. Your current strategy isn't working and you are just going to bore yourself out of the game.



The increased losses are to do with my own laziness. I could make just as much isk if I made some deals with hauling groups and sorted out some stuff to get everything handled, but originally our plan was to wait them out.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2015-04-16 12:06:05 UTC
Miss Dallocort wrote:
It's not just that we don't make as much it's also that we have been playing other games in the mean time.
Well, have fun then!

EVE is mostly about player interaction, including the competitive and non-consensual kind.

There are several ways to react to other EVE players when they come knocking on your door: fight, make friends (with them), outsmart, (actively) evade, negotiate, become sworn enemies forever, move in another space, etc...

But if all that doesn't appeal to you, then probably you'll have more fun playing 'other games'... Blink

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Miss Dallocort
Doomheim
#58 - 2015-04-16 12:12:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Dallocort
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Miss Dallocort wrote:
It's not just that we don't make as much it's also that we have been playing other games in the mean time.
Well, have fun then!

EVE is mostly about player interaction, including the competitive and non-consensual kind.

There are several ways to react to other EVE players when they come knocking on your door: fight, make friends (with them), outsmart, (actively) evade, negotiate, become sworn enemies forever, move in another space, etc...

But if all that doesn't appeal to you, then probably you'll have more fun playing 'other games'... Blink



See, you say that we should be playing another game because we don't want to interact with a big PVP Alliance who have threatened us, but the way I see it is, by refusing to pay them regardless of our lost profits we are fighting back, fighting back against them as bullies trying to extort isk out of people.


Sure we could fight back with weapons maybe even inflict some damage, but I'd much rather watch them waste time and money because I'm pretty sure my pockets reach much deeper than theirs.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2015-04-16 12:16:51 UTC
Miss Dallocort wrote:
[quote=Gully Alex Foyle]See, you say that we should be playing another game because we don't want to interact with a big PVP Alliance who have threatened us, but the way I see it is, by refusing to pay them regardless of our lost profits we are fighting back, fighting back against them as bullies trying to extort isk out of people.


Sure we could fight back with weapons but I'd much rather watch them waste time and money because I'm pretty sure my pockets reach much deeper than theirs.
From what you describe:

. You're the guys wasting time

. You're the guys losing more money

Seems like a pretty ineffective way of 'fighting the mean bullies' to me... Roll

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Mithandra
B.O.P Supplication For Glorious
Dracarys.
#60 - 2015-04-16 12:20:53 UTC
It's EVE.


Sorry..... that's all I've got.

Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community