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[April] Ore, Mineral and Nullsec Mining Anomaly Revamp

First post First post First post
Author
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#721 - 2015-04-28 14:13:53 UTC
Falin Whalen wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
marly cortez wrote:
Gave up on mining in December, un-subbed ten accounts and trashed the equipment due to CCP's ham fisted nerf's.

Nothing here entices me to consider mining as a profession again, Tinkering with Ore contents which were never the real issues with mining in the first place will not solve the problems as pointed out by Our Anzac member.

'FozzieSov' and his 'Tosser' units will in my view seal the fate of Null Sec mining anyway as there will be so few players in Null Sec doing anything interesting except 'Griefing' each other his plans to turn EVE into one gigantic Jita 4-4 undock scenario will result in only one end, Players will own nothing, build nothing and plan nothing in Null Sec so not much point in mining out there.

Happy now to just run two toons ratting, make double plus the ISK and not have the bother of running a mining fleet at all while I watch these fools trash the game for hundreds of players.

Way to Go Fozzie, LoSec born and bred. Roll

Don't worry.

Once the ihubs get trashed your ratting income will fall off a cliff

Or perhaps another anom nerf, thanks to all the people bragging about their ratting


Don't forget that the IHubs also have the industrial upgrades too, and most null systems don't spawn the ABCM ores in the normal belts.

Yay, Fozziesov! Pirate


For the big guys like you, it will be an annoyance for sure but if any small allliance ever gets a few systems and want to raise it's industry index and use the upgrade, I fear large group will burn it down because :reasons: thus making them close to un-usable.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#722 - 2015-04-28 18:57:26 UTC
Well it happens. You know how these things are.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Mr Gus
Mr Gus Corporation
#723 - 2015-04-28 21:27:52 UTC
i hope you ccp to bankrut to some oder buy and made eve good game you work only to destroi game hope you hapy after all ppl leave, is no need be genius to see yo u server is have evry day less loget from last before, y is no only eve space based game any more i am mad mad
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#724 - 2015-04-29 12:52:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Selaria Unbertable
@CCP Fozzie
The new mineral composition is fine and all, but you guys forgot to adjust the volumes of the compressed ores.
Right now, the best way to compress Tritanium is Compressed Hemorphite, with a whooping compression ratio of over 1:100 (meaning 1m³ of compressed ore contains over 100m³ of minerals if refined, the intended ratio is about 1:20). Best for Pyerite? Hedbergite with around 1:70. Jaspet is still fine, but all the 0.0 ores have the same problem, their ratio is too high.
If this is intended, I won't complain. Instead I'll be putting up buy orders for those in Jita next time I need larger quantities of those mineralsBig smile
kleinduimpie
Grumpy Grumps
#725 - 2015-04-30 12:15:22 UTC
It is all nice to rebalance but what about the high sec manufactors, they being screwed as there is no megacyte and zydrine in high sec they have to be independed from market and that just rised about double the isk

You guys might all be great with this but really i think with all this rebalacing the game is not so great as it used to be.

Yeah I know you all start screaming leave the game etc, well I am when subscribtion is over and no you can not have my stuff.

We pay for this game but we have no saying in what we want changed and all.

CCP f***ed up industry big time imo.

there is loads more but I am not really going to bother with that

Enjoy the game, fly safe
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Reckless Contingency.
#726 - 2015-04-30 12:44:06 UTC
kleinduimpie wrote:
It is all nice to rebalance but what about the high sec manufactors, they being screwed as there is no megacyte and zydrine in high sec they have to be independed from market and that just rised about double the isk

You guys might all be great with this but really i think with all this rebalacing the game is not so great as it used to be.

Yeah I know you all start screaming leave the game etc, well I am when subscribtion is over and no you can not have my stuff.

We pay for this game but we have no saying in what we want changed and all.

CCP f***ed up industry big time imo.

there is loads more but I am not really going to bother with that

Enjoy the game, fly safe


about bloody time ccp fixed highsec manufacturing. taken them long enough

Good Job on this one ccp
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#727 - 2015-04-30 13:25:16 UTC
kleinduimpie wrote:
It is all nice to rebalance but what about the high sec manufactors, they being screwed as there is no megacyte and zydrine in high sec they have to be independed from market and that just rised about double the isk

You guys might all be great with this but really i think with all this rebalacing the game is not so great as it used to be.

Yeah I know you all start screaming leave the game etc, well I am when subscribtion is over and no you can not have my stuff.

We pay for this game but we have no saying in what we want changed and all.

CCP f***ed up industry big time imo.

there is loads more but I am not really going to bother with that

Enjoy the game, fly safe


Or you could raise your prices to account for the increased manufacturing costs.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Mario Putzo
#728 - 2015-04-30 15:53:21 UTC
Selaria Unbertable wrote:
@CCP Fozzie
The new mineral composition is fine and all, but you guys forgot to adjust the volumes of the compressed ores.
Right now, the best way to compress Tritanium is Compressed Hemorphite, with a whooping compression ratio of over 1:100 (meaning 1m³ of compressed ore contains over 100m³ of minerals if refined, the intended ratio is about 1:20). Best for Pyerite? Hedbergite with around 1:70. Jaspet is still fine, but all the 0.0 ores have the same problem, their ratio is too high.
If this is intended, I won't complain. Instead I'll be putting up buy orders for those in Jita next time I need larger quantities of those mineralsBig smile


Likely intended as to provide benefits to Low Sec as well, since these ore type are predominantly LS sourced.
Fzhal
#729 - 2015-04-30 17:55:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Fzhal
(Dons flame-retardant gear.)

These changes seem like a step in the right direction. However, they do not change the need for miners to mine unwanted ores in anomalies to cycle them. Similarly, one of the main things about Eve's mining system has always bugged me is the lack of competition for resources because they respawn so frequently, predictably, and abundantly. If these changes do not bring back the tiered pricing of ores, I think that CCP should strongly consider changing their availability and ease of access. Really, how often do miners have to change solar systems and what percent of Eve's available roids are actually mined each day?

Mercoxit is a good example. I agree with Querns and others about removing Mercoxit almost entirely from anomalies, because of anomaly cycling. Make Mercoxit special, like NPC special... This would allow it to mostly spawn in comets... (I know... but please hear me out. I'll keep the tangent short.)

I started with the assumption that comet mining hasn't happened yet because of technical issues, like asteroids aren't coded to be mobile. NPCs are mobile, though, and can go in one direction at 1km/sec (+-). Only one thing would be needed to create a very natural-feeling mini-game, a Mercoxit-damage halo and tail. The damaging halo/tail, in combination with the existing navigation and combat mechanics, would manifest as a naturally occurring mini-game.

Benefits of comet as NPC:
  • DScan and combat probes needed to find them (could add comet prospecting to Exploration profession)
  • Warping to signature would put the ship 20km+ away and in the Mercoxit-damage tail (not a safe place)
  • Large/long engine contrail (kilometers long) could be used as the comet's tail if needed
  • Using "Keep at distance" or "Orbit" would quickly land the ship in the damaging tail (manual piloting would be required)
  • NPC combat mechanics could be used to occasionally create massive Mercoxit-cloud eruptions at players (long lock, fire, untarget) with smartbomb effect or single-target attack with low-tracking/high-signature turret
  • Jet-can mining would leave a string of cans to pick up


The main issues I can think of:

  • Ore tables (back-end) would have to be connected to an NPC somehow
  • Area of effect damage in tail
  • Art of gaseous eruptions and tail (optional)
  • Barges/Exhumers would need PG bonuses to equip MWD


(Sorry for the Tangent)
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#730 - 2015-04-30 18:42:52 UTC
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#731 - 2015-04-30 18:59:58 UTC
Fzhal wrote:
(Dons flame-retardant gear.)

Wall of text

(Sorry for the Tangent)


This is a very Solid idea on how to implement a form of active mining. I am not sure we need to change anything with barge/exhumer ships I would be more of a fan of allowing the venture/prospector to have a very solid niche to fill in here. It would also help fix the problem of cycling the belts
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#732 - 2015-05-01 02:35:56 UTC
GankYou wrote:
BREAKING NEWS - Mexallon has fallen to 48.6 ISK p/u in the Forge region - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5711392#post5711392

I'm literally watching my recent plagioclase investment crumble underneath me. Oops.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#733 - 2015-05-01 04:19:41 UTC
Rowells wrote:
GankYou wrote:
BREAKING NEWS - Mexallon has fallen to 48.6 ISK p/u in the Forge region - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5711392#post5711392

I'm literally watching my recent plagioclase investment crumble underneath me. Oops.


It's okay to cry. Tears of Joy. Big smile
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#734 - 2015-05-01 04:46:35 UTC
Fzhal wrote:
(Dons flame-retardant gear.)

These changes seem like a step in the right direction. However, they do not change the need for miners to mine unwanted ores in anomalies to cycle them. Similarly, one of the main things about Eve's mining system has always bugged me is the lack of competition for resources because they respawn so frequently, predictably, and abundantly. If these changes do not bring back the tiered pricing of ores, I think that CCP should strongly consider changing their availability and ease of access. Really, how often do miners have to change solar systems and what percent of Eve's available roids are actually mined each day?

Mercoxit is a good example. I agree with Querns and others about removing Mercoxit almost entirely from anomalies, because of anomaly cycling. Make Mercoxit special, like NPC special... This would allow it to mostly spawn in comets... (I know... but please hear me out. I'll keep the tangent short.)

I started with the assumption that comet mining hasn't happened yet because of technical issues, like asteroids aren't coded to be mobile. NPCs are mobile, though, and can go in one direction at 1km/sec (+-). Only one thing would be needed to create a very natural-feeling mini-game, a Mercoxit-damage halo and tail. The damaging halo/tail, in combination with the existing navigation and combat mechanics, would manifest as a naturally occurring mini-game.

Benefits of comet as NPC:
  • DScan and combat probes needed to find them (could add comet prospecting to Exploration profession)
  • Warping to signature would put the ship 20km+ away and in the Mercoxit-damage tail (not a safe place)
  • Large/long engine contrail (kilometers long) could be used as the comet's tail if needed
  • Using "Keep at distance" or "Orbit" would quickly land the ship in the damaging tail (manual piloting would be required)
  • NPC combat mechanics could be used to occasionally create massive Mercoxit-cloud eruptions at players (long lock, fire, untarget) with smartbomb effect or single-target attack with low-tracking/high-signature turret
  • Jet-can mining would leave a string of cans to pick up


The main issues I can think of:

  • Ore tables (back-end) would have to be connected to an NPC somehow
  • Area of effect damage in tail
  • Art of gaseous eruptions and tail (optional)
  • Barges/Exhumers would need PG bonuses to equip MWD


(Sorry for the Tangent)


Better to put comet mining feedback into the specific thread for it as the ideas will most likely disappear in here. I'm all for it myself but with fast moving comets that need ventures/prospectors to keep up with. Have them give explosive outgassing leaving minable clouds that give damage if you get too close...ice shell, ore core and occasional moon goo calving...manual flying required to avoid the damaging tail and clouds of rubble...gimme gimme...
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#735 - 2015-05-01 12:40:52 UTC
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Reckless Contingency.
#736 - 2015-05-02 01:13:07 UTC
I agree with a few of the comments on this

combine the roids some what. theres no need for 50 roids. give us back spodzilla

Actually I was really looking forward to a 736k unit spodzilla just for the shear size of the roid (like a large comet) and for the hilarity of people bookmarking the roid and warping to it at 0km and bouncing a few hundred km off it before stopping.

Please merge some of the roids into decent / visable roids again.
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#737 - 2015-05-02 13:42:48 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
You know, I heard a rumour there are these things called static belts in Null, that have even more in them than highsec, and a mix of all the ores as well. And given there are even more null systems than high, and high has no industrial anoms.... this must mean that all the ore that null currently imports could easily just come from their static belts.

You just won't be satisfied till CCP gives you absolute perfect braindead mining in the anoms will you? It's already been just handed to you on a silver platter needing only slight balancing, now you want it on the gold platter with platinum inlay as well.
Well, not exactly true. The static belts in nul have no proximity and grouping to be effectively mining efficient. In comparision, old anoms and high security static belts have higher mining efficiency, with much fewer warp-in locations required to mine the entire belt. Ores in nul static belts are sometimes spread out over vast distances; anomalies and high-sec belts are nothing like that, making them much easier to mine to completion.
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#738 - 2015-05-02 14:19:12 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
Null also overtakes high sec in having sole access to the best-performing sources of Isogen (now Dark Ochre, where it used to be Omber)



Not that anyone ever mined omber, as it has, /by far/ the lowest isk/m3 of any ore.

Currently 193 isk/m3, compared to the next lowest of Veld at 238 (atm. Prices have adjusted. But these are from the mineral prices, at 100% refine)
As pointed out earlier, you do mine everything in anomalies if you want them to re-spawn. High sec anoms commonly had omber; since Amarr and Calcari high sec static belts had no omber, you mined it irrelevant of the isk/m3.

Hmm, so much speculation since two weeks ago...
Ore --(May2015)-- isk/m3

1. Arkanor -- 460.16
2. Mercoxit -- 450.10
3. Bistot -- 382.90
4. Crokite -- 361.61
5. Hedbergite -- 261.75
6. Dark Ochre -- 249.52
7. Hemorphite -- 244.40
8. Jaspet -- 220.42
9. Scordite -- 203.41
10. Kernite -- 196.23
11. Pyroxeres -- 192.79
12. Gneiss -- 185.63
13. Plagioclase -- 181.91
14. Veldspar -- 175.38
15. Omber -- 149.35
16. Spodumain -- 123.90
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#739 - 2015-05-02 15:38:12 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:


you want to grief the mining belts/anon's now.. so instead of blowing up ships, structures, and infrastructure.. you now propose ccp to allow you to doomsday a mining belt.. rofl


Not me personally, no. I left the cesspool that is nullsec a long time ago. Also, your analogy is pretty disingenuous since doomsdays aren't aoe and can't even target everything universally like sub caps can. Though I do like the idea of stealth bombers being able to bomb anoms.

Besides, the lol factor, you haven't actually pointed out why this is a bad idea. Bombing strategic resources like mines etc in WWII made since, so why wouldn't it make since in this context?
Now there is an idea. Affecting moon goo will likely hit too many pocketbooks to 'pass the Senate'.

There is no point mining nul until anoms return to being scanned with probes; there really is no safety in mining at all, but at least d-scanning while mining anoms gave you a premise of safety. End of story.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#740 - 2015-05-02 22:18:40 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Moon materials have been what kept the conflicts dynamic for most of the first dacade. One point five Trillion ISK per month potential income on Dysprosium alone will do that. Smile