These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[April] Ore, Mineral and Nullsec Mining Anomaly Revamp

First post First post First post
Author
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#461 - 2015-04-21 15:19:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Mario Putzo wrote:

And yet here we are in a thread about making EVE more fair for 1 of 4 regions of space. Ironic isn't it. NS complains about lowends , CCP addresses concerns, "YAY BRAVO CCP". HS complains about lack of highend access "SHUT UP PUBBIE EVE ISNT FAIR."


I might be ever so slightly more sympathetic if CCP had not openly stated that the days of 10LY range of jump freighters are numbered.

Complaining that nullsec should continue to be dependent on highsec for lowends even once CCP makes that impossible is "unlikely" at even my most charitable, and "batshit crazy" on my normal level of concern for your sensitivities.
Hendrink Collie
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#462 - 2015-04-21 15:20:09 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Querns wrote:

The change doesn't make nullsec more fair, it makes nullsec more self-sufficient.


Which is exactly what I just said they should do for HS and LS, and you said "EVE isn't fair."


Wait, why should HS + LS get more lucrative ores even though... espically in high-sec's case, whe there is a lot less risk involved in the process of mining the ore. With risk, there comes reward, and null-sec is a lot more risky than high-sec unless you are hauling 3b+ worth of junk in a charon. CCP wants people to risk more to get more, not the other way around.
Mario Putzo
#463 - 2015-04-21 15:24:13 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. After reading through the feedback so far we've made some tweaks to the compositions of the Anoms. Now the ratios between different minerals have more variance from anom type to anom type, so that nullsec groups will be able to take advantage of the choice of different anoms to get slightly different mineral ratios. For instance, under the new numbers the Mediums have extra Mexallon so if you find you're low on Mex you can mine out some mediums.

The OP has been updated.


Sounds good, so when are LS and HS going to be absolved of having to import from NS?

when the highends that go into a battleship take an equal amount of space as trit does

"oh woe is me, my need to import a single blockade runner worth of stuff every year is the same as nullsec needing multiple jump freighters per day for the same production chain"



But NS has access to tons of trit, its not my fault or CCPs fault people simply DONT mine it. Its easier to just buy in bulk in HS already broken down, compressed yada yada. Still does not change the fact TRIT has always been available in large supply to NS folks...they just don't mine it. (probably because mining is god awful boring).

Main difference, again for the folks who obviously DONT read either, is that HS CANT mine for megacyte in any capacity. The only source for Megacyte in HS and LS is gun mining.

CANT and DONT are two very different words. You should look them up in a dictionary sometime.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#464 - 2015-04-21 15:25:43 UTC
Hendrink Collie wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Querns wrote:

The change doesn't make nullsec more fair, it makes nullsec more self-sufficient.


Which is exactly what I just said they should do for HS and LS, and you said "EVE isn't fair."


Wait, why should HS + LS get more lucrative ores even though... espically in high-sec's case, whe there is a lot less risk involved in the process of mining the ore. With risk, there comes reward, and null-sec is a lot more risky than high-sec unless you are hauling 3b+ worth of junk in a charon. CCP wants people to risk more to get more, not the other way around.


Didn't you get the memo? It's so safe in nullsec and so lucrative to mine that it's horribly unfair, despite all the effort and isk and time that goes into obtaining, upgrading, and protecting it.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#465 - 2015-04-21 15:26:03 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:

But NS has access to tons of trit

This is incorrect.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#466 - 2015-04-21 15:26:06 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:

But NS has access to tons of trit, its not my fault or CCPs fault people simply DONT mine it. Its easier to just buy in bulk in HS already broken down, compressed yada yada. Still does not change the fact TRIT has always been available in large supply to NS folks...they just don't mine it. (probably because mining is god awful boring).

Main difference, again for the folks who obviously DONT read either, is that HS CANT mine for megacyte in any capacity. The only source for Megacyte in HS and LS is gun mining.

CANT and DONT are two very different words. You should look them up in a dictionary sometime.

this entire post is basically "i know i'm completely wrong and can't support my argument in any sensible way so i'm going to try to debate pointless details in the hope that someone thinks they're relevant"
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#467 - 2015-04-21 15:27:39 UTC
No area of space is intended to be fully self sufficient. These changes will not make any area of space fully self sufficient, nor should they.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#468 - 2015-04-21 15:27:49 UTC  |  Edited by: EvilweaselSA
"you see, if you ignore all sensible ways of thinking and instead adopt reasoning so stupid even the dimmest of bulbs don't reach for it unless it's literally the only thing that gets you to the result you want, then the situation becomes somewhat ambiguious. let us all debate things according to my obviously pointless approach and hope that people forget how to think"

if an activity is possible in a cosmic sense and pointless, that is irrelevant in a game
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#469 - 2015-04-21 15:28:50 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
No area of space is intended to be fully self sufficient. These changes will not make any area of space fully self sufficient, nor should they.


NICE REGION, WE'LL TAKE IT! Cool

Upgraded Ore Anomalies are all uniform, however. Sad
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#470 - 2015-04-21 15:35:55 UTC
GankYou wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
No area of space is intended to be fully self sufficient. These changes will not make any area of space fully self sufficient, nor should they.


NICE REGION, WE'LL TAKE IT! Cool

Upgraded Ore Anomalies are all uniform, however. Sad

Nah. Truesec plays a part in giving you boosted anoms with +5% and +10% variants.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#471 - 2015-04-21 15:36:09 UTC
GankYou wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
No area of space is intended to be fully self sufficient. These changes will not make any area of space fully self sufficient, nor should they.


NICE REGION, WE'LL TAKE IT! Cool

Upgraded Ore Anomalies are all uniform, however. Sad

they vary based on truesec (better trusec gets +5% or +10% versions)
Mario Putzo
#472 - 2015-04-21 15:38:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
CCP Fozzie wrote:
No area of space is intended to be fully self sufficient. These changes will not make any area of space fully self sufficient, nor should they.


Except they do just that. Assuming of course NS folks actually learns where the undock button is while sitting in Mining vessels.

Might I ask, what is the actual intended purpose of these changes then? If not to make NS more self sufficient, at the obvious cost to LS and HS regions?


edit
and if these changes do not make NS fully self sufficient (which they don't) why can we not also have anoms available in HS and LS that have ore with Megacyte and Zydrine? It won't make them fully self sufficient, but it will decrease the dependency on NS importing...which is as far as I can tell the whole point of the changes to NS ore, less requirement to import from HS/LS.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#473 - 2015-04-21 15:41:59 UTC
These threads on ore and structures are getting a bit hard to keep up with. It could be time to consolidate feedback and unsticky them, with new ones in place based on the current position in development.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#474 - 2015-04-21 15:42:29 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
No area of space is intended to be fully self sufficient. These changes will not make any area of space fully self sufficient, nor should they.


Except they do just that. Assuming of course NS folks actually learns where the undock button is while sitting in Mining vessels.

Might I ask, what is the actual intended purpose of these changes then? If not to make NS more self sufficient, at the obvious cost to LS and HS regions?

"more" does not equal "fully."

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#475 - 2015-04-21 15:45:14 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
No area of space is intended to be fully self sufficient. These changes will not make any area of space fully self sufficient, nor should they.


Except they do just that. Assuming of course NS folks actually learns where the undock button is while sitting in Mining vessels.

Might I ask, what is the actual intended purpose of these changes then? If not to make NS more self sufficient, at the obvious cost to LS and HS regions?



Weren't you just pontificating about the differences between don't and can't? There is also a difference between "More" self-sufficient and "fully" self-sufficient.


I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#476 - 2015-04-21 15:45:22 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
and if these changes do not make NS fully self sufficient (which they don't) why can we not also have anoms available in HS and LS that have ore with Megacyte and Zydrine? It won't make them fully self sufficient, but it will decrease the dependency on NS importing...which is as far as I can tell the whole point of the changes to NS ore, less requirement to import from HS/LS.


Do you have a better idea for weaning nullsec off Jita?

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Mario Putzo
#477 - 2015-04-21 15:47:02 UTC
Querns wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
No area of space is intended to be fully self sufficient. These changes will not make any area of space fully self sufficient, nor should they.


Except they do just that. Assuming of course NS folks actually learns where the undock button is while sitting in Mining vessels.

Might I ask, what is the actual intended purpose of these changes then? If not to make NS more self sufficient, at the obvious cost to LS and HS regions?

"more" does not equal "fully."


No ****?

Its a good thing I never said NS was fully self sufficient then, otherwise Id look like a boob.

All I am asking is, if NS can get changes that reduce their dependency on HS, why can HS also not receive changes that reduce dependency on NS?

Fun fact...some folks just don't want to live and operate in NS, just as some folks don't want to live and operate in HS. If changing ores in NS increases self sufficiency without making them fully self sufficient, then adding Highend mineral sources to HS and LS will result in the exact same, more self sufficiency, but not full self sufficiency.
Mario Putzo
#478 - 2015-04-21 15:50:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
and if these changes do not make NS fully self sufficient (which they don't) why can we not also have anoms available in HS and LS that have ore with Megacyte and Zydrine? It won't make them fully self sufficient, but it will decrease the dependency on NS importing...which is as far as I can tell the whole point of the changes to NS ore, less requirement to import from HS/LS.


Do you have a better idea for weaning nullsec off Jita?


I do actually.

Make LS the primary source for all Low End minerals in the belts, with Mid and High End Anoms. To encourage more day tripping by miners from both NS and HS, and creating a real required network of trading between all 3 regions of space.

(NS would retain their High Ends, while HS will take on the mid ends from LS)

Essentially LS would have access to all minerals either in the belts, or in anoms. NS and HS folks can come get them much more readily than NS>Market Hub, or HS>NS ninja mining.

- Increases LS traffic
- Increases LS population
- Increases LS production

Like any good economy...grow from the middle out, not the top down.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#479 - 2015-04-21 15:52:01 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Querns wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
No area of space is intended to be fully self sufficient. These changes will not make any area of space fully self sufficient, nor should they.


Except they do just that. Assuming of course NS folks actually learns where the undock button is while sitting in Mining vessels.

Might I ask, what is the actual intended purpose of these changes then? If not to make NS more self sufficient, at the obvious cost to LS and HS regions?

"more" does not equal "fully."


No ****?

Its a good thing I never said NS was fully self sufficient then, otherwise Id look like a boob.


Considering that you said "Except they do just that" to CCP Fozzie's statement "These changes will not make any area of space fully self-sufficient," I can only conclude that you are moving the goalposts.

Also, one can make nullsec more self-sufficient without a commensurate increase of self-sufficiency in other parts of the game. Remember, Eve is not fair.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#480 - 2015-04-21 15:52:15 UTC
I'm thinking I'd have preferred ore in losec to be buffed. This would have put losec in the centre of ore trade between hi and null and boosted losec population potentially.