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[April] Ore, Mineral and Nullsec Mining Anomaly Revamp

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Author
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#421 - 2015-04-21 00:21:06 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Speaking of cybernetics-enhanced performance - this was in Rancer, Rancer of all places! Lol

http://i.imgur.com/yiNTZ9S.jpg

Didn't stop to think about that Legion having Beams. vOv I think that's a Role-Playing corp with real people. Blink
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#422 - 2015-04-21 00:24:06 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Querns wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:

So all of the Deklein ratting bots will be "promoted" to mining bots?
Well, like I were saying, whoever has the biggest bot fleet wins the mineral rush.

Why use a bot when a Mackinaw does 95% of what a bot does without the attendant risk of being hellbanned by CCP?

The same thing applies to ishtars and ratting.


Because as long as they make enough, you don't care if they're banned. CCP can hellban individuals, but not alliances.
And you cannot manage 20 Mackinaws while you're asleep. The same thing applies to carriers and ratting.


Roll

Some serious grasping going on itt
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#423 - 2015-04-21 00:40:16 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Speaking of cybernetics-enhanced performance - this was in Rancer, Rancer of all places! Lol

http://i.imgur.com/yiNTZ9S.jpg

Didn't stop to think about that Legion having Beams. vOv I think that's a Role-Playing corp with real people. Blink

What the hell is up with that HUD? CAPSULEEJECTEDWARPDRIVEACTIVEKILLREPORTAVAILIBLESHIELDSATFIFTYPERCE T

Don't you just love that post-Exploding lag
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#424 - 2015-04-21 00:46:07 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Used to be far worse back in the day, with a loading bar across the screen. Sad

I'd love to see the capsule being ejected 5 seconds prior to complete destruction of the spaceship, so you can enjoy the nice explosions as you fofofofofo into warp. Cool

Since we're in Rancer - Anyone in this thread that actually mines in Lowsec - do you think the changes are sufficient to draw some portion of Hisec miners there?

I can understand your concerns for anonymity, if you're hesitant to disclose that. Blink
Simon Alfrir
Doomheim
#425 - 2015-04-21 03:30:17 UTC
FearlessLittleToaster wrote:
[quote]
As a nullsec miner I endure considerably more risk that a highsec miner. I would challenge you to show that there are more per capita highsec miner deaths from CODE etc. than nullsec miner deaths from all the people who can shoot them.


Care to give us your miner character's name so we can see just how 'dangerous' it is for you? It's not with this account which you posted with as I can't find the mining ships you've lost. How many times has your miner died in the past month? How about for your entire corp? Are we talking daily, weekly, monthly or bi-annual kills?

From what I've read there are null systems safely tucked away at the end of a pipe with no travel and full-time miners using multi-boxers to haul in the ore. Do you dispute that is occurring? That doesn't sound very dangerous to me.

The rich will get richer off the backs of the Highsec miners. You already get enough bonuses for living in 0.0. There is nothing broken in Null right now but this will change things negatively for Highsec. I would hazard to guess that the number of players being negatively affected outweighs the number who will be benefiting from the proposed change.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#426 - 2015-04-21 03:55:55 UTC
Simon Alfrir wrote:
The rich will get richer off the backs of the Highsec miners. You already get enough bonuses for living in 0.0. There is nothing broken in Null right now but this will change things negatively for Highsec.


Wealth per hour comparison

Simon Alfrir wrote:
I would hazard to guess that the number of players being negatively affected outweighs the number who will be benefiting from the proposed change.


The only hazard with this change is your posting RollRollRoll
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#427 - 2015-04-21 03:57:07 UTC
When does this change take effect, anyways? April what?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#428 - 2015-04-21 04:17:11 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
When does this change take effect, anyways? April what?

april 28th
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#429 - 2015-04-21 05:05:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Querns
Simon Alfrir wrote:
FearlessLittleToaster wrote:
[quote]
As a nullsec miner I endure considerably more risk that a highsec miner. I would challenge you to show that there are more per capita highsec miner deaths from CODE etc. than nullsec miner deaths from all the people who can shoot them.


Care to give us your miner character's name so we can see just how 'dangerous' it is for you? It's not with this account which you posted with as I can't find the mining ships you've lost. How many times has your miner died in the past month? How about for your entire corp? Are we talking daily, weekly, monthly or bi-annual kills?

From what I've read there are null systems safely tucked away at the end of a pipe with no travel and full-time miners using multi-boxers to haul in the ore. Do you dispute that is occurring? That doesn't sound very dangerous to me.

The rich will get richer off the backs of the Highsec miners. You already get enough bonuses for living in 0.0. There is nothing broken in Null right now but this will change things negatively for Highsec. I would hazard to guess that the number of players being negatively affected outweighs the number who will be benefiting from the proposed change.

Ah, yes, the killboard challenge from a poster who has been alive for four days.

But hey, I'll oblige anyways: Deklein sees some barge kills often. When you consider how awful mining is right now in nullsec, this is quite a lot!

e: bbcode is hard

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Simon Alfrir
Doomheim
#430 - 2015-04-21 06:11:25 UTC
Querns wrote:
Simon Alfrir wrote:
FearlessLittleToaster wrote:
[quote]
As a nullsec miner I endure considerably more risk that a highsec miner. I would challenge you to show that there are more per capita highsec miner deaths from CODE etc. than nullsec miner deaths from all the people who can shoot them.


Care to give us your miner character's name so we can see just how 'dangerous' it is for you? It's not with this account which you posted with as I can't find the mining ships you've lost. How many times has your miner died in the past month? How about for your entire corp? Are we talking daily, weekly, monthly or bi-annual kills?

From what I've read there are null systems safely tucked away at the end of a pipe with no travel and full-time miners using multi-boxers to haul in the ore. Do you dispute that is occurring? That doesn't sound very dangerous to me.

The rich will get richer off the backs of the Highsec miners. You already get enough bonuses for living in 0.0. There is nothing broken in Null right now but this will change things negatively for Highsec. I would hazard to guess that the number of players being negatively affected outweighs the number who will be benefiting from the proposed change.

Ah, yes, the killboard challenge from a poster who has been alive for four days.

But hey, I'll oblige anyways: Deklein sees some barge kills often. When you consider how awful mining is right now in nullsec, this is quite a lot!

e: bbcode is hard


So you live in an area about 10x safer to mine than in The Forge.
https://zkillboard.com/region/10000002/group/463/

Nullsec mining = Less risk and soon to be more reward
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#431 - 2015-04-21 06:17:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Omniblivion
Simon Alfrir wrote:
So you live in an area about 10x safer to mine than in The Forge.
https://zkillboard.com/region/10000002/group/463/

Nullsec mining = Less risk and soon to be more reward


Keep digging that hole-

Here, let me help you out. How many more factors of ore is mined in The Forge than in Deklein?

Hint: more than 10x
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#432 - 2015-04-21 07:15:09 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Here, let me help you out. How many more factors of ore is mined in The Forge than in Deklein?

That is simply because farming other PVE activities in null sec, such as combat anoms, is easier, less risky and, as Querns points out, far more profitable than mining. And, why bother mining when you are rich enough from other PVE sources to afford to buy minerals in high sec and pay to ship them out to null sec?

As for those few poor Goons who got themselves popped mining in Deklein... they are obviouslly part of the group which Querns rightly labeled as "a wide buffet of folks in space without significant 'street smarts.'" They probably all got popped in high sec by the CODE before joining the Goons... lol.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#433 - 2015-04-21 08:13:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Simon Alfrir wrote:


So you live in an area about 10x safer to mine than in The Forge.
https://zkillboard.com/region/10000002/group/463/

Nullsec mining = Less risk and soon to be more reward

Sure, picking the single most populated region in the game and comparing it to any area in null, the volume of kills will be different. But then you realize, that with the number of people in that highsec region, its a bit less isk lost per capita than the aforementioned nullsec region.

So, divide the total loss in isk by number of losses. Nullsec residents are losing 40mil more per loss than highsec residents. So theres that too.

Also, it doesn't really matter how safe the players make it. I imagine if highsec worked together and invested like nullsec, they too, would achieve paradise.
Simon Alfrir
Doomheim
#434 - 2015-04-21 09:17:42 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Simon Alfrir wrote:


So you live in an area about 10x safer to mine than in The Forge.
https://zkillboard.com/region/10000002/group/463/

Nullsec mining = Less risk and soon to be more reward

Sure, picking the single most populated region in the game and comparing it to any area in null, the volume of kills will be different. But then you realize, that with the number of people in that highsec region, its a bit less isk lost per capita than the aforementioned nullsec region.

So, divide the total loss in isk by number of losses. Nullsec residents are losing 40mil more per loss than highsec residents. So theres that too.

Also, it doesn't really matter how safe the players make it. I imagine if highsec worked together and invested like nullsec, they too, would achieve paradise.


Much more money is lost from mining in Highsec than in Null. That's what the killlboard is showing.

There are more miners in Highsec therefore more people are being hurt than helped by this change.

There is no added game play value (miners need not apply to your Null corps).

No one in this thread has demonstrated why these changes are needed. Answer: The changes aren't needed.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#435 - 2015-04-21 09:51:34 UTC
Simon Alfrir wrote:
Much more money is lost from mining in Highsec than in Null. That's what the killlboard is showing.

maybe you need to look at more than just 'this number is bigger than that one. Its not surprising that highsecs massive population (3-4x greater than null iirc) would have more lost from mining barges by volume. It's expected since there are so many more miners in null. What we were comparing is the relative safety, which is far more skewed toward nullsec being the least safe.

Simon Alfrir wrote:
There are more miners in Highsec therefore more people are being hurt than helped by this change.

There is no added game play value (miners need not apply to your Null corps).

No one in this thread has demonstrated why these changes are needed. Answer: The changes aren't needed.

If you really havent bothered to read the dozens of responses as to why the change is needed, I doubt repeating them to you again is going to make you actually read them.

As to hurting more players, just because one group of players is benefitting off the lack of gameplay from another group doesn't justify keeping the status quo.

Or, of course, we could drivel down the path of only doing what the majority of players want and just toss out any kind of gameplay implications.

Hell, since all those miners in highsec seem to be what we balance the entire game around, why don't we remove barge ganking? Or, better yet, increase the refine rate of highsec stations to surpass nullsec, since its only fair to the greater population.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#436 - 2015-04-21 09:56:28 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Hell, since all those miners in highsec seem to be what we balance the entire game around, why don't we remove barge ganking? Or, better yet, increase the refine rate of highsec stations to surpass nullsec, since its only fair to the greater population.

I'm sure that the high sec miners will be happy to hear that null sec players, such as yourself, are finally admitting this is what CCP really should be doing in order to balance and improve the game.

+1
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#437 - 2015-04-21 10:02:35 UTC
Simon Alfrir wrote:

No one in this thread has demonstrated why these changes are needed. Answer: The changes aren't needed.


Easy:

CCP Fozzie wrote:

These changes are intended to make Nullsec more self sufficient then it is currently.


Right now nullsec is reliant on JFs to have anything. CCP wants it to be less so.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#438 - 2015-04-21 11:41:11 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Hell, since all those miners in highsec seem to be what we balance the entire game around, why don't we remove barge ganking? Or, better yet, increase the refine rate of highsec stations to surpass nullsec, since its only fair to the greater population.

I'm sure that the high sec miners will be happy to hear that null sec players, such as yourself, are finally admitting this is what CCP really should be doing in order to balance and improve the game.

+1

Giving in to highsec, and giving to highsec is what it is all about

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#439 - 2015-04-21 12:53:27 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Hell, since all those miners in highsec seem to be what we balance the entire game around, why don't we remove barge ganking? Or, better yet, increase the refine rate of highsec stations to surpass nullsec, since its only fair to the greater population.

I'm sure that the high sec miners will be happy to hear that null sec players, such as yourself, are finally admitting this is what CCP really should be doing in order to balance and improve the game.

+1

Man, talk about things that would negatively affect the sacred cow of "highsec miner isk/hr" — turning highsec into a risk free theme park would drop lowends to the minimum possible price faster than the OP's changes ever would.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Dentia Caecus
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#440 - 2015-04-21 13:12:20 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


We're very interested to hear from miners, nullsec industrialists and prospective nullsec industrialists. Let us know how you view these changes and how you would like to see them changed to better meet your needs. Thanks!


It has been approximately a week since this post was created. Do the devs have any feedback?