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CCP removing non-choices

Author
Silence Dubensky
Doomheim
#21 - 2015-04-15 02:54:28 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Why does the transmission setting N still exist on cars?

Self destruct exists because starships should have a self destruct, according to all the sci-fi movies ever. Can't go against the established peculiarities of the genre.



Because keeping an automatic in gear will slowly but surely wear out the clutch packs in the torque convertor. Neutral doesn't do it.

You can't compare it to self destruct which is an unnecessary, only ocassional useful function.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#22 - 2015-04-15 06:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sean Parisi
Downside - There is no longer as much "oompff" when you pod kill someone. IE: That guy has an old character so even without implants upgrading his POD is anywhere from 30-100 mil. Then there is of course the possibility they could lose skill points which is a major 'flip off'.

But although I am a big fan of 'hardcore' gamesets where you can lose assets. Character progression that cannot be grinded but lost (which relies on being subscribed) feels as if it is robbing you for messing up and effects newer characters more then experienced ones.

The new changes have brought out more people to die and although many people will now let themselves be podded (without being forced into larger ship types due to their pod being worth more then a frigate). There is still the possibility of killing people for large amounts of ISK who either want to improve performance through faction implants or SP generation.

What I look forward to is the possibility of hard core characters with set skill points that CCP has been thinking about. Player who can on their conception buy an upgrade boosting their skill points - but should they be podded their character will be permanently dead. (As opposed to long haul characters like our current ones)

Note: Self destruct exists primarily as a way to stop yourself from being pointed for five hours
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#23 - 2015-04-15 07:00:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
Silence Dubensky wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
Why does the transmission setting N still exist on cars?

Self destruct exists because starships should have a self destruct, according to all the sci-fi movies ever. Can't go against the established peculiarities of the genre.



Because keeping an automatic in gear will slowly but surely wear out the clutch packs in the torque convertor. Neutral doesn't do it.

You can't compare it to self destruct which is an unnecessary, only ocassional useful function.

Something can not be unnecessary and usefull at the same time.
It's either usefull or unnecessary.

And "occasionally usefull" still does not make anything unnecessary.


Go get lost in a WH and tell me how it feels not being able to kill yourself.

Have fun playing the game that way.
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#24 - 2015-04-15 07:46:33 UTC
Because ships that take longer than 2 mins to kill will almost always choose self destruct under your criteria to spoil the killmail and loot of the attackers. Almost all capitals will choose this option and then it gets silly as thatll be a lot of loot that under your idea wouldnt drop.

CCP changed it right to allow killmails and loot drop for self destructing ships so they couldnt cheap their way out of it anymore.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#25 - 2015-04-15 07:50:13 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Never been stuck in a wormhole?

Never been on one side of the galaxy in your empty or very cheap pod and want to get back home quickly?


this, getting the mass of a wh wrong and jumping through for a wormhole to close on you and you have no probes, you are pretty much fcked, only way out is self destruct

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2015-04-15 08:08:37 UTC
I was always saying that killmail grinders will win in Eve Online. Now you see the real criteria for CCP developers here.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#27 - 2015-04-15 08:12:31 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
I was always saying that killmail grinders will win in Eve Online. Now you see the real criteria for CCP developers here.


killmail grinders will win? does having a ton of shuttles and pods determine your winning? grinders killboards are far from impressive

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Nakami Saans
Conclave of Independent Pilots
#28 - 2015-04-15 13:07:10 UTC
I just want the SD to do damage to enemy ships. It would obviously have to be in relation to its size as to how much damage is done aka bigger reactor, bigger explosion.

For example, I'm in a BS out doing "stuff (ratting, missions, etc.)", I get attacked by a roaming gang and find myself unable to warp after being tackled by several frigates and attacked from further out by cruisers and possibly BC's. I suddenly find myself in a no-win scenario, unable to escape. My thought process would immediately go to "If I'm going down I'm taking them with me." type of mind set. Now you might have the weapons and drones to take down some ships but you might not get them all but you eventually lose your ship and possibly your pod.

For this kind of scenario where If I'm aware enough to know that I'm going to go down, I can activate the self destruct and take out some of the tacklers in my area unless they GTFO. This would also give me a chance to escape in my pod and save any implants I might have.

TL;DR I've always felt that SD's should do AOE damage in relation to the size of your ship.

People: "You shouldn't burn bridges." Me: "I don't, I bomb them from orbit."

Jenshae Chiroptera
#29 - 2015-04-15 13:22:22 UTC
Nakami Saans wrote:
TL;DR I've always felt that SD's should do AOE damage in relation to the size of your ship.
... but not exceeding a rack full of smart bombs.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#30 - 2015-04-15 13:29:11 UTC
Nakami Saans wrote:
I just want the SD to do damage to enemy ships. It would obviously have to be in relation to its size as to how much damage is done aka bigger reactor, bigger explosion.

For example, I'm in a BS out doing "stuff (ratting, missions, etc.)", I get attacked by a roaming gang and find myself unable to warp after being tackled by several frigates and attacked from further out by cruisers and possibly BC's. I suddenly find myself in a no-win scenario, unable to escape. My thought process would immediately go to "If I'm going down I'm taking them with me." type of mind set. Now you might have the weapons and drones to take down some ships but you might not get them all but you eventually lose your ship and possibly your pod.

For this kind of scenario where If I'm aware enough to know that I'm going to go down, I can activate the self destruct and take out some of the tacklers in my area unless they GTFO. This would also give me a chance to escape in my pod and save any implants I might have.

TL;DR I've always felt that SD's should do AOE damage in relation to the size of your ship.

If you let your pod get killed then ...
... unless you're bubbled in null or being disco'd ...
... you're doing it wrong.

It's damn easy to save the pod.

Just spam warp seconds before the ship explodes.
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Hipqo
Tyde8
#31 - 2015-04-15 13:40:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Hipqo
Nakami Saans wrote:
TL;DR I've always felt that SD's should do AOE damage in relation to the size of your ship.


By that logic, all ship explosions should have AOE effect really.
Not a bad idea imho, but i doubt it will ever happen.

As far as im concerned, SD is fine the way it is.
Giving people the option to kill them selves and prevent loot/killmail to the attacker, is just pointless.
If you let yourself get caught, and theres no way out, deal with the consequenses of your choices and move on. You made an error or was simply outsmarted, or else you wouldnt be caught, with no option of escape.

Its as simple as that really.

A life is best lived, to not step into your grave in a well preserved body. Instead, to slide in side ways, all battered and bruised, screamming, "Holy SH**! What a ride!"

Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2015-04-15 13:45:59 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Why does the transmission setting N still exist on cars?


Because Manual Transmissions?

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-04-15 14:08:39 UTC
Hipqo wrote:

As far as im concerned, SD is fine the way it is.
Giving people the option to kill them selves and prevent loot/killmail to the attacker, is just pointless.
If you let yourself get caught, and theres no way out, deal with the consequenses of your choices and move on. You made an error or was simply outsmarted, or else you wouldnt be caught, with no option of escape.

So you actually removed one of option for defender (denial of loot) without changing the whole picture.

That's what OP said initially: removing options from the game. Is it really needed?

Next thing would be preventing capsule from warping out after losing ship i guess? According to your logic "you let yourself get caught, ...., deal with consequences, ... ". So it will be only reasonable if loser loses its pod too. And nope, current situation is not good: unless attackers have insta-locker capsule can get out! Totally evading consequences! Evil

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#34 - 2015-04-15 20:40:22 UTC
Hipqo wrote:
Nakami Saans wrote:
TL;DR I've always felt that SD's should do AOE damage in relation to the size of your ship.


As far as im concerned, SD is fine the way it is.
Giving people the option to kill them selves and prevent loot/killmail to the attacker, is just pointless.
If you let yourself get caught, and theres no way out, deal with the consequenses of your choices and move on. You made an error or was simply outsmarted, or else you wouldnt be caught, with no option of escape.

Its as simple as that really.


This is really my main concern with the game as it is now. And I would ask you, if denying equipment to the enemy is pointless, why is it the policy of every nation state and standing army in the world? I did agree SD should be changed to produce a killmail when it was implemented, because even indirectly the explosion has been caused by the attacker.

Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Because ships that take longer than 2 mins to kill will almost always choose self destruct under your criteria to spoil the killmail and loot of the attackers. Almost all capitals will choose this option and then it gets silly as thatll be a lot of loot that under your idea wouldnt drop.

CCP changed it right to allow killmails and loot drop for self destructing ships so they couldnt cheap their way out of it anymore.

An entity with the resources/hardware to take out a capital is in desperate need of this loot is it?

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2015-04-15 21:13:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Daerrol
Moonlit Raid wrote:
.My question; Why does the self destruct function still exist? There is no choice here, only that if you're dying slowly you can speed it up.


That err, is a choice.

Also have you ever fougt a capital? I've killed plenty and I am dirt poor.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#36 - 2015-04-15 21:30:05 UTC
But can afford a capital?

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#37 - 2015-04-15 22:16:08 UTC
I'm going to disagree with almost everyone who's posted so far. The OP has a valid point. Blow yourself and your stuff is gone.

Also, just to clarify for the numbskulls and their selective reading. SHE'S NOT ADVOCATING REMOVING THE MECHANIC!

Sheesh...you people sometimes.

Mr Epeen Cool
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