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[NEWS] Leading Imperial weapons manufacturer confirms research on...
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Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#41 - 2015-04-14 20:08:17 UTC
All else aside, I very much doubt the Amarr will be able to pull as far ahead in this case as in the last research race, if the other nations should attempt to catch back up. Mind, this is assuming the State, Federation, and Republic aren't in fact executing similar programs. Given that we've seen reports of a Matari taskforce engaging Vigilant Tyrannos ships near Eram, I very much suspect every major power is attempting to reverse engineer Tyrannos technology as quickly as possible.

With all due respect, pilots, what this will come to is as such: more of the same, whatever we consider the same to be.

If the technology is indeed particularly powerful, it will come into Capsuleer hands soon enough, and we'll continue to be heroic, monstrous, self-interested, selfless, or any other number of things as we always are.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#42 - 2015-04-14 20:10:53 UTC
If it goes the same way the last time the Amarr Empire got an edge in new cutting edge war technologies and introduced the Templars, it did not take very long for everyone to catch up.

Especially when it is sanctioned by CONCORD to preserve the statu quo.
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2015-04-14 20:16:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinjin Mokk
First off, if you think the Republic, State, Federation, Sansha and every other major power aren't also in the race to reverse-engineer the Drifter's technology, then you've been living in an asteroid.

Why did the Empire make a point to announce it first?

Well for one, it's the Empire. I, a humble Khanid, have been accused of being occasionally egotistical (I can't imagine why), but even my pride pales compared to many within the Empire. It's just the Imperial way.

Why else? In reading some independent news agencies, I came across this piece of the puzzle. Yesterday, a Nightmare-class battleship valued at about four billion ISK was destroyed while defending the Tash-Murkon home system from a Sansha Incursion. CONCORD reports that the capsuleer had safeties off and fired on the wrong ship by "accident." It was also reported that this is the fourth such high-ISK loss that defender capsuleers have suffered in the last ten days of action in the Rifenda constellation at the hands of CONCORD. The report continues to mention that recent civilian losses to the Nation are estimated to be in the tens of thousands.

So with CONCORD not only refusing to assist the Empire (or anyone) against the Sansha threat, in some cases they're even working to actively undermine capsuleer defense efforts. And with Sansha striking into the very heart of the Empire, striking a jewel in the Empress' crown, the Imperial Navy is looking for every edge they can get.

So I would suggest the Republic and Federation tone down the rhetoric. You're not that much of a threat to the Empire anymore. The Nation and the Drifters (and to an extent CONCORD and a decade of free trade) are bigger than you. And it's not like you don't have your own black projects going on. I suppose it would be a wasted, altruistic statement to suggest (again) a measure of solidarity in light that we as a species are endangered by the threats both groups pose. Well, at least we don't have to worry about the bloody Jove anymore.

Blessings!

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#44 - 2015-04-14 21:00:48 UTC
To be fair and at the expense of the conspiracy theorists, it's not much of a black project if they announce it in the media!

Hard to see what the Empire's done wrong here and, I'm sure, we'll all feel the benefits when the invisible hands of the marketplace get this technology into all our hands.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#45 - 2015-04-14 21:04:42 UTC
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
First off, if you think the Republic, State, Federation, Sansha and every other major power aren't also in the race to reverse-engineer the Drifter's technology, then you've been living in an asteroid.

Why did the Empire make a point to announce it first?

Well for one, it's the Empire. I, a humble Khanid, have been accused of being occasionally egotistical (I can't imagine why), but even my pride pales compared to many within the Empire. It's just the Imperial way.

Why else? In reading some independent news agencies, I came across this piece of the puzzle. Yesterday, a Nightmare-class battleship valued at about four billion ISK was destroyed while defending the Tash-Murkon home system from a Sansha Incursion. CONCORD reports that the capsuleer had safeties off and fired on the wrong ship by "accident." It was also reported that this is the fourth such high-ISK loss that defender capsuleers have suffered in the last ten days of action in the Rifenda constellation at the hands of CONCORD. The report continues to mention that recent civilian losses to the Nation are estimated to be in the tens of thousands.

So with CONCORD not only refusing to assist the Empire (or anyone) against the Sansha threat, in some cases they're even working to actively undermine capsuleer defense efforts. And with Sansha striking into the very heart of the Empire, striking a jewel in the Empress' crown, the Imperial Navy is looking for every edge they can get.

So I would suggest the Republic and Federation tone down the rhetoric. You're not that much of a threat to the Empire anymore. The Nation and the Drifters (and to an extent CONCORD and a decade of free trade) are bigger than you. And it's not like you don't have your own black projects going on. I suppose it would be a wasted, altruistic statement to suggest (again) a measure of solidarity in light that we as a species are endangered by the threats both groups pose. Well, at least we don't have to worry about the bloody Jove anymore.

Blessings!

Never thought I would be rooting for The Nation, guess life has little surprises like that.... Go Sansha!

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#46 - 2015-04-14 22:17:13 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
ValentinaDLM wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
ValentinaDLM wrote:
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
Yes, because we all know how responsible the Republic would be with it, blowing up CONCORD stations and launching small invasions of the Federation every now and then.


The Empire is the whole reason the elder fleet attacked Concord, the blood is on the hands of the Amarr for making that necessary in the first place. The Republic has plenty of problems you dont need to add blame for things that were merely reasonable responses to a situation that the Empire created.


Reasonable... ?


Yes. Reasonable. Just like it was reasonable the Nation struck back at those who attempted to eradicate it so long ago. Do we all have such short memories that we expect groups who suffered injustices to ignore the desire for vengeance?

It anything the fact that the elder fleet wasn't used as a cover for a surface bombardment of major amarrian population centers, should make us appreciate the restraint that was shown during this attack. Millions perhaps billions more could have died if that is what had been desired.


Maybe you should visit what actually happened on say... Halthurzan, and witness what are the consequences of massive slave uprisings, general disorder and anarchy, post apocalyptic scenery, and perhaps most importantly the widespread use of aerosol Insorum as a weapon of mass destruction, and the genetic fallout that happened after that, and still happens today.

I am sorry, but where does actually lie that absence of surface bombardment ? Some even actually go to some lenghts debating what is worse between Amarrian retributive fleets glassing whole planets as a way to quench rebellions, and Minmatar fleets using wide spectrum atmospheric biohazard weapons at the same scale of application.

Did you mean, an eye for an eye instead of restraint, per chance ?


Those being harmed who aren't addicted to vitoc, is much more restrained than glassing whole planets.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#47 - 2015-04-14 22:24:24 UTC
You may want to review what genetic biohazard does on the species as a whole over generations, then. That is mostly why I mentioned that some are arguing that to be actually worse.

Not that I subscribe to any of both views, for a debate that would seem rather... petty...

But, you are not addressing the point at hand. Where was the restraint ?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#48 - 2015-04-14 22:26:15 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
You may want to review what genetic biohazard does on the species as a whole over generations, then. That is mostly why I mentioned that some are arguing that to be actually worse.

Not that I subscribe to any of both views, for a debate that would seem rather... petty...

But, you are not addressing the point at hand. Where was the restraint ?


The effects are even worse on a culture that won't permit genengineering to attempt a fix.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Markus Error
Manfios
#49 - 2015-04-14 22:29:00 UTC
Honestly? I give it weeks, months at most, before everybody has similar programs to the Imperial one. No empire can seem to maintain any notable technological edge for any length of time, so I fail to see why this is an issue.

"If it cannot be shot the #### down, it can always be blown the #### up."

-Unknown
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2015-04-15 01:19:05 UTC
Markus Error wrote:
Honestly? I give it weeks, months at most, before everybody has similar programs to the Imperial one. No empire can seem to maintain any notable technological edge for any length of time, so I fail to see why this is an issue.


Let the Empress sort out her new toys so we can all steal them later.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#51 - 2015-04-15 01:43:33 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
You may want to review what genetic biohazard does on the species as a whole over generations, then. That is mostly why I mentioned that some are arguing that to be actually worse.

Not that I subscribe to any of both views, for a debate that would seem rather... petty...

But, you are not addressing the point at hand. Where was the restraint ?


The effects are even worse on a culture that won't permit genengineering to attempt a fix.

Funny thing is, that's kinda the point. Get as many of their people as possible.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#52 - 2015-04-15 03:56:22 UTC
I thought you were angry at the Holders who maintain the institution of slavery? Attacking the common Amarrian citizenry seems entirely unproductive, unless you were looking at achieving an atrocity you could bring home to your domestic audience as an achievement.

In which case losing the enormous fleet you paid for with money that was supposed to secure their standard of living and independence seems, again, counterproductive.

No wonder so many of your people flee to the Gallente...

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#53 - 2015-04-15 04:55:33 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
You may want to review what genetic biohazard does on the species as a whole over generations, then. That is mostly why I mentioned that some are arguing that to be actually worse.

Not that I subscribe to any of both views, for a debate that would seem rather... petty...

But, you are not addressing the point at hand. Where was the restraint ?

The effects are even worse on a culture that won't permit genengineering to attempt a fix.

Funny thing is, that's kinda the point. Get as many of their people as possible.

This seems like a sad way to fight a war.

Perhaps there are no kind ways, but....
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#54 - 2015-04-15 06:15:33 UTC
So it's ok for them to glass our planets and enslave our people, but when we drop gas on their's it's an atrocity worthy of the upmost contempt? Cool story, here's another one, we don't really care.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#55 - 2015-04-15 10:20:28 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
You may want to review what genetic biohazard does on the species as a whole over generations, then. That is mostly why I mentioned that some are arguing that to be actually worse.

Not that I subscribe to any of both views, for a debate that would seem rather... petty...

But, you are not addressing the point at hand. Where was the restraint ?


They could have spent all their time and energy on killing everyone. They could have bombarded planets from orbit killing indiscriminately, they could have tried to take out the collective anger and pain of enslavement, by attempting to kill ever Amarrian and collaborator they could. Dead people don't have future generations.

The Empire has proven time and time again, that it cannot be trusted to do what is in the best interest of humanity. The Federation and the Republic are corrupt and it would be hard to trust them. If any of the Empires get it first it should be the state, who could then sell to all parties ensuring profits and an even balance of power.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#56 - 2015-04-15 12:03:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
You may want to review what genetic biohazard does on the species as a whole over generations, then. That is mostly why I mentioned that some are arguing that to be actually worse.

Not that I subscribe to any of both views, for a debate that would seem rather... petty...

But, you are not addressing the point at hand. Where was the restraint ?


The effects are even worse on a culture that won't permit genengineering to attempt a fix.


I am pretty sure that some will attempt to do it, though considering the economic realities of the Mandate now, as well as the overseeing of the Ardishapur family, I doubt there will be many to do it... Except maybe to black market.

Tyrel Toov wrote:
So it's ok for them to glass our planets and enslave our people, but when we drop gas on their's it's an atrocity worthy of the upmost contempt? Cool story, here's another one, we don't really care.


Uh... who said it was ok to do so... ?

ValentinaDLM wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
You may want to review what genetic biohazard does on the species as a whole over generations, then. That is mostly why I mentioned that some are arguing that to be actually worse.

Not that I subscribe to any of both views, for a debate that would seem rather... petty...

But, you are not addressing the point at hand. Where was the restraint ?


They could have spent all their time and energy on killing everyone. They could have bombarded planets from orbit killing indiscriminately, they could have tried to take out the collective anger and pain of enslavement, by attempting to kill ever Amarrian and collaborator they could. Dead people don't have future generations.

The Empire has proven time and time again, that it cannot be trusted to do what is in the best interest of humanity. The Federation and the Republic are corrupt and it would be hard to trust them. If any of the Empires get it first it should be the state, who could then sell to all parties ensuring profits and an even balance of power.



Relativity ab absurdo huh ?
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#57 - 2015-04-15 13:11:44 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
So it's ok for them to glass our planets and enslave our people, but when we drop gas on their's it's an atrocity worthy of the upmost contempt? Cool story, here's another one, we don't really care.

Hm. Maybe stuff like this is what actually happened to the Jove.

Maybe they got in a fight with someone and won, sort of.

An ancient and forgotten war, echoing in their genes for thousands of years. Billions of war dead who can't even remember what the war was about.
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2015-04-16 16:13:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinjin Mokk
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I thought you were angry at the Holders who maintain the institution of slavery? Attacking the common Amarrian citizenry seems entirely unproductive, unless you were looking at achieving an atrocity you could bring home to your domestic audience as an achievement.

In which case losing the enormous fleet you paid for with money that was supposed to secure their standard of living and independence seems, again, counterproductive.

No wonder so many of your people flee to the Gallente...



Forgive me Sir, but you seem to be under the impression that there is somehow a difference between a "Holder" and a "common Amarrian citizen." The Holder can legally buy, sell and keep slaves (with the understanding that there should be some attempt at saving the soul of the individual). The common citizen can't do this legally, but some do. All however, reap the benefits of several thousand years of institutionalized slavery. Very few are even remotely apologetic for it. So if some terrorist has sand in his breeches over the concept of slavery and attacks either Holders or Common, there really is no "moral" difference. All are a part of the institution.

I will agree though that the Republic seems more hell-bent on "Coming For Their People" than doing anything to actually help the ones they are able to steal. How many meals, homes and jobs could have been created for the price of one lost fleet?

When I acquire slaves, I make sure to give them the best medical care, food, clothing...I give them what amounts to a job, with training and room for advancement. I make sure their spiritual needs are met...and this is quite uncommon among my associates, but it does improve moral immensely. I certainly don't leave them to starve in some rust-filled backwater, or worse, coerce them into being a soldier for a lost cause or dump them in the Federation to pursue a life of migrant second-class citizen. I care about my people. That's God's plan and it's just good business.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#59 - 2015-04-17 14:23:45 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
To be fair and at the expense of the conspiracy theorists, it's not much of a black project if they announce it in the media!


Makes you wonder what they're REALLY up to if they're throwing a bone this big to distract us...

(Disclaimer: the above to be taken mostly in jest.)

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
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