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Rebalance Rapid light missile launchers
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Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
#1 - 2015-04-12 19:13:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Baali Tekitsu
In my opinion the rapid light missile launcher is in a wrong spot right now. The idea of the Rapid light missile launcher is to have a excellent weapon system to deal with frigs, at the cost of having limited ability to deal with larger targets. At the moment this is the exact opposite. RLML are currently far too strong against Cruisers with perfect application in almost all cases doing very high damage. At the same time they often have issues applying damage to more extreme frig cases (especially interceptors) as they get outrun or cant apply damage due to the high speeds. AB fit t3 Destroyers are often more than a challange aswell.
What I propose is reducing the rate of fire by a lot, adding a damage multiplier like turrets have them and giving them built in application bonuses, result should be a 25% dps cut.

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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#2 - 2015-04-12 19:24:51 UTC
reducing cycle time = rate of fire = higher dps...

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
#3 - 2015-04-12 19:26:48 UTC
Aye, edited that part

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Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#4 - 2015-04-12 19:45:00 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
RLML are currently far too strong against Cruisers with perfect application in almost all cases doing very high damage. .


Such as?

After reload is taken into account RLML do 287 dps on a Navy Caracal with perfect skills and 3 BCU's, for a faction cruiser that's hardly "doing very high damage"
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
#5 - 2015-04-12 20:00:16 UTC
I think you vastly overestimate the ability of Cruisers to project damage and apply damage. You will be hard pressed to find a Cruiser that can project this kind of damage out to 40k (or further) and apply it almost perfectly. Its basically only possible with a Navy Omen and even in this case you will barely outdps rlml due to tracking fails and whatnot comes up in a fight.

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Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#6 - 2015-04-12 20:12:46 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
I think you vastly overestimate the ability of Cruisers to project damage and apply damage. You will be hard pressed to find a Cruiser that can project this kind of damage out to 40k (or further) and apply it almost perfectly. Its basically only possible with a Navy Omen and even in this case you will barely outdps rlml due to tracking fails and whatnot comes up in a fight.


You fly Ishtars and Navy Vexors then come on the forums to rant about the Range and DPS of Rapid lights. okay
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
#7 - 2015-04-12 20:26:56 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:

You fly Ishtars and Navy Vexors then come on the forums to rant about the Range and DPS of Rapid lights. okay


Ishtars and VNIs are on a completely different level of broken. But even they have trouble applying damage against properly flown ships.

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Iain Cariaba
#8 - 2015-04-12 20:40:49 UTC
Waitaminute. You're complaining that light missiles are applying full damage to hulls larger than the hulls they were intended to be fired against? Am I right in this? Meanwhile you're also complaining about their lack of damage application to ships that are able to take advantage of the only way to really mitigate the incoming damage of a missile boat?

Serious question, what are smoking? I see absolutely no problem here.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
#9 - 2015-04-12 20:48:13 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Waitaminute. You're complaining that light missiles are applying full damage to hulls larger than the hulls they were intended to be fired against? Am I right in this? Meanwhile you're also complaining about their lack of damage application to ships that are able to take advantage of the only way to really mitigate the incoming damage of a missile boat?

Serious question, what are smoking? I see absolutely no problem here.


My main complaint is that there is no way to mitigate their damage while in a Cruiser except completely disabling the enemy ship and they are doing too much at the same time.

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Iain Cariaba
#10 - 2015-04-12 21:00:10 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Waitaminute. You're complaining that light missiles are applying full damage to hulls larger than the hulls they were intended to be fired against? Am I right in this? Meanwhile you're also complaining about their lack of damage application to ships that are able to take advantage of the only way to really mitigate the incoming damage of a missile boat?

Serious question, what are smoking? I see absolutely no problem here.


My main complaint is that there is no way to mitigate their damage while in a Cruiser except completely disabling the enemy ship and they are doing too much at the same time.

Sure there is. Survive the magazine, then kill them in the 35s that they can't apply any damage. I use RLMLs all the time, with near perfect missile skills, and have people survive all the time. There are many cruisers that can fit enough tank to survive, or can get just enough speed to mitigate the damage. Hell, the Ishtar is one of the ships that can fit enough tank to survive a RLML magazine. Just because you have issues with RLMLs doesn't mean they are actually broken.
TheOneWho
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-04-12 21:02:53 UTC
I think Baali has a good point, Rapid Lights are a little too good
Iain Cariaba
#12 - 2015-04-12 21:10:29 UTC
TheOneWho wrote:
I think Baali has a good point, Rapid Lights are a little too good

Thank you for speaking up, probable alt of Baali.
joecuster
Iron Inquisition
Brotherhood of Spacers
#13 - 2015-04-12 21:11:34 UTC
Give them a speed penalty both to the missile velocity and the explosion velocity.
Ivarr Kerensky
Kerensky Tactical Group
#14 - 2015-04-12 22:12:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivarr Kerensky
really good damage application for the ship size they're fired from, really good range, more than decent dps taking into account the range they have. Tbh rapid launchers should never have been introduced, it's like giving a thorax a damage bonus when using light neutrons: it's going to cause balance issues.

The reloading time is a balancing factor but it does nothing against the frontloaded applied damage, other than basic stat changing I don't see an easy way to make it less silly, other than removing them.

- edit- slashing their flight time would be helpful.



Iain Cariaba wrote:
I use RLMLs all the time



You don't get to call others shills given your obvious bias on the subject.

Excellence is an attitude.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#15 - 2015-04-12 22:47:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Ivarr Kerensky wrote:
Tbh rapid launchers should never have been introduced, it's like giving a thorax a damage bonus when using light neutrons.


Yes.

Now I'm looking to create a rapid ML turret equiv. Sorry. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

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Lienzo
Amanuensis
#16 - 2015-04-12 23:05:02 UTC
I think precision light missiles could use a boost to missile speed and acceleration. The range penalty reduction is also a bit severe.

Another option would be to make the damage formula be less distributed. That way, extreme hull velocity would have a strong effect on a portion of the damage formula, but not all of the damage.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
#17 - 2015-04-12 23:12:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Baali Tekitsu
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Waitaminute. You're complaining that light missiles are applying full damage to hulls larger than the hulls they were intended to be fired against? Am I right in this? Meanwhile you're also complaining about their lack of damage application to ships that are able to take advantage of the only way to really mitigate the incoming damage of a missile boat?

Serious question, what are smoking? I see absolutely no problem here.


My main complaint is that there is no way to mitigate their damage while in a Cruiser except completely disabling the enemy ship and they are doing too much at the same time.

Sure there is. Survive the magazine, then kill them in the 35s that they can't apply any damage. I use RLMLs all the time, with near perfect missile skills, and have people survive all the time. There are many cruisers that can fit enough tank to survive, or can get just enough speed to mitigate the damage. Hell, the Ishtar is one of the ships that can fit enough tank to survive a RLML magazine. Just because you have issues with RLMLs doesn't mean they are actually broken.



Thats not mitigating damage, thats disabling the ship (by killing it).

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Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#18 - 2015-04-13 00:32:42 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Waitaminute. You're complaining that light missiles are applying full damage to hulls larger than the hulls they were intended to be fired against? Am I right in this? Meanwhile you're also complaining about their lack of damage application to ships that are able to take advantage of the only way to really mitigate the incoming damage of a missile boat?

Serious question, what are smoking? I see absolutely no problem here.


My main complaint is that there is no way to mitigate their damage while in a Cruiser except completely disabling the enemy ship and they are doing too much at the same time.


Start flying armour ishtar then.
Sparky Dave3
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-04-13 00:40:20 UTC
Rapid lights are currently stupid strong against cruisers and frigates with no signature reduction bonus.

The damage I can put out from an Orthrus for example is silly, I can project damage out past what the majority of my peers can and do better applied dps.

I would rather see them changed so the reload time is less crippling and maybe having Precision buffed a little to be worth using
Tiddle Jr
MOONFIRE SERVICE PROVIDER
#20 - 2015-04-13 05:05:08 UTC
I see Aquila corp having big troubles with Rapid Lights. And something tells me what is the issue.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
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