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Acceleration, Aligning, and Warp Mechanics
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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2015-04-13 06:51:50 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
I don't think there's a max speed to enter warp. At least it's definitely not 105%.

Anyone can test it: align, turn on mwd, wait a cycle or two, turn off mwd, hit warp as fast as you can as soon as the mwd shuts.

You'll see that you insta-warp, while moving much faster than your max base speed.

I have and you don't and if you had before you'd posted you'd know that it's true. The 105% number I got, I believe, from jester's trek. If you don't believe me try it yourself but when you are aligned and going too fast with your MWD off you don't warp until you slow down enough.

The way that I discovered this was when I was aligned and above max speed and not warping and it took me a long while of research to find the cause.
Hmmm... time for SCIENCE!

Just re-tested in a blockade runner, max speed 258 m/s, with MWD 1.805 m/s.

Aligned, turned on MWD, waited to get to max speed.

Turned off MWD, waited for the cycle to end, clicked warp. Warped pretty much instantly; the last speeds I read on the gauge were:

Test 1: 1.300 m/s
Test 2: 1.700 m/s (was very quick, but I'm pretty sure the MWD was off, else why would my speed have decreased?)
Test 3: 800 m/s (waited a bit more, to be 100% sure the MWD was positively off)

According to your theory, I sholudn't have warped until I slowed down to 270 m/s or so. That was definitely not the case.


Another simple test: when I undock this ship, I noticed that the station spits me out at over 400 m/s. If I immediately command a warp to my insta-undock, I insta-warp. Last speed shown on the gauge is over 350 m/s.


You could re-test it yourself and post your results...

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Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#42 - 2015-04-13 09:47:21 UTC
It's actually kinda fun to mess with this.

The best I've gotten so far is going into warp with a speed of 1025 in a ship with a max speed of 110, so... 932% max speed going into warp! Aww, yeah.

// Basically everything involving shoehorning a large MWD onto a cruiser is hilarious, in my experience.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#43 - 2015-04-13 10:05:36 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Also: welcome back, Sol, I missed you.

Awwww you are the only one who said that ..........................

Thanks.......... :/
But I'm sure I'm not the only one that thought so.

People should express their feelings, it's just... natural!

;)

(;

P

Aww. :)

There is not much to add here,
except that Jester's blog should not be used as a source for information.

And that lack of experience makes a bad source too.

Re: Decloaking.
Anything within 2000m will decloak a vessel, including other cloaked vessels.
Unless they changed that AGAIN, of course.

And there is no "too fast for warp". The issue has something to do with the cycletime
of the propulsion mods and not with the speed of the ship itself.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2015-04-13 11:44:58 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:


Just re-tested in a blockade runner, max speed 258 m/s, with MWD 1.805 m/s.

Aligned, turned on MWD, waited to get to max speed.

Turned off MWD, waited for the cycle to end, clicked warp. .

and
Eve Solecist wrote:

And there is no "too fast for warp". The issue has something to do with the cycletime
of the propulsion mods and not with the speed of the ship itself.

I was hitting warp before the end of the cycle time. These 2 posts might explain that. However my pause before warp extended past the end of the cycle so if it is a cycle time thing I still don't fully understand what is causing the delay.

Eve Solecist wrote:

There is not much to add here,
except that Jester's blog should not be used as a source for information.

And that lack of experience makes a bad source too.

Not sure why jester's blog can not be used as a source. I realize it's old and not kept up but for mechanics that have remained unchanged or largely unchanged what is the issue? CCP does not release detailed information to us, all of this type of specific information and how-tos on game mechanics come from third parties.

As far as my lack of experience I clearly stated it so people could take that into consideration and source of information? I never sourced any information on decloaking. The only thing that I did was say that jester had a blog on it. I have linked that blog to several people who do PvP and told me that it was helpful. So while I don't PvP and have never tried to decloak someone at a gate before I never claimed to have any knowledge of it nor did I post any info on it other than go read jesters blog.

I realize that all of Jester's old posts on ship fits are mostly obsolete and not of much help and that the game is changing every day and making more and more of his posts obsolete. However the stuff that is still relevant can be helpful as he had a knack for explaining complicated mechanics in a way that most people could easily understand. Yes there are newer sources which are kept up to date and even more informative but I have yet to see another Eve author that is as good as Jester / Ripard Teg at explaining.

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Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#45 - 2015-04-13 11:56:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
There is nothing else to add to this.
You should feel bad for defending him.

Hell, your whole post makes me wonder why you are so defensive about
something that has nothing to do with you personally .........
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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2015-04-13 14:06:00 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:


Just re-tested in a blockade runner, max speed 258 m/s, with MWD 1.805 m/s.

Aligned, turned on MWD, waited to get to max speed.

Turned off MWD, waited for the cycle to end, clicked warp. .

and
Eve Solecist wrote:

And there is no "too fast for warp". The issue has something to do with the cycletime
of the propulsion mods and not with the speed of the ship itself.

I was hitting warp before the end of the cycle time. These 2 posts might explain that. However my pause before warp extended past the end of the cycle so if it is a cycle time thing I still don't fully understand what is causing the delay.
It doesn't really matter at which point of the cycle your MWD is, the reason I waited for the cycle to end is because, in that specific test, I wanted the MWD to be OFF while my ship was still going at (or close to) MWD speed.

If you're aligned, you warp if your current speed is 75% of your max speed or higher:

- Prop mod OFF and no other effects --> >75% of your ship's max base speed
- Prop mod ON --> >75% of your ship's max AB or MWD speed
- Webbed --> >75% of your max speed while under web
- Skirmish links (Rapid Deployment) ON --> >75% of your max speed boosted by the links

Etc.........


TBH, I sometimes experienced a delay before warp as well, IIRC while I was trying to warp out from a fight. Possible reasons:
. Server quirks or lag
. Ship not yet aligned (though it looked like it was, and going full speed)
. Me being in such a hurry to GTFO that 0.5 seconds felt like 5 seconds :)

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Oraac Ensor
#47 - 2015-04-13 14:07:46 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
Anything within 2000m will decloak a vessel, including other cloaked vessels.
Unless they changed that AGAIN, of course.

I'm pretty sure that cloaked ships don't de-cloak each other.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#48 - 2015-04-13 14:30:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:
Anything within 2000m will decloak a vessel, including other cloaked vessels.
Unless they changed that AGAIN, of course.

I'm pretty sure that cloaked ships don't de-cloak each other.

There was this huge whine fest about that topic,
coming from multiboxing stealth bomber pilots,
because CCP changed that.

"pretty sure" pretty much equals "I don't know".


Bingo!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=379698
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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2015-04-13 14:47:13 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:
Anything within 2000m will decloak a vessel, including other cloaked vessels.
Unless they changed that AGAIN, of course.

I'm pretty sure that cloaked ships don't de-cloak each other.

There was this huge whine fest about that topic,
coming from multiboxing stealth bomber pilots,
because CCP changed that.

"pretty sure" pretty much equals "I don't know".


Bingo!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=379698
I'm 'pretty sure' CCP eventually changed their minds, though.

:p

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SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#50 - 2015-04-13 16:56:17 UTC
Azda Ja wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Question still stands - does it or does it not increase the physical collision sphere around the ship? vOv


It still stands, and is a good question. Honestly I'm very curious now if that's the case or not. I'll try a bit of testing when I'm on later.


It's not, and it doesn't. Signature radius is not the literal size of the sphere - it is exactly what it says it is: a signature. Basically, how large your ship appears to be to sensors (targeting computers and the like).

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Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2015-04-13 17:18:37 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Azda Ja wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Question still stands - does it or does it not increase the physical collision sphere around the ship? vOv


It still stands, and is a good question. Honestly I'm very curious now if that's the case or not. I'll try a bit of testing when I'm on later.


It's not, and it doesn't. Signature radius is not the literal size of the sphere - it is exactly what it says it is: a signature. Basically, how large your ship appears to be to sensors (targeting computers and the like).


Yes, I didn't quite understand it fully and Sol explained it very well. Both your explanations are appreciated.

Grrr.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2015-04-13 17:49:57 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Hmmm... time for SCIENCE!

Good study. I have wondered about this because freighters in particular tend to do something funny when you try to web them off a station (they take forever). I wonder if it has to do with the direction of the velocity vector (could also explain why it took time for erg if she wasn't aligned when she hit warp).

Probably not unique to freighters but it is obviously the most obvious with them, for obvious reasons.

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Titan's Lament
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2015-04-13 17:59:49 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Hmmm... time for SCIENCE!

Good study. I have wondered about this because freighters in particular tend to do something funny when you try to web them off a station (they take forever). I wonder if it has to do with the direction of the velocity vector (could also explain why it took time for erg if she wasn't aligned when she hit warp).

Probably not unique to freighters but it is obviously the most obvious with them, for obvious reasons.
Aye, same here with my jump freighter. I'd warp to gate right after jumping into the lowsec border system, but my cyno alt is also my webbing alt. I don't want to take chances with the 6-bil jf even in highsec, and the cyno chick needs to wait on her self-destruct timer before being available for webbing duty.

If a fat-arse ship has a velocity vector in ze wrong direction, it's a pain to make it turn. I'd speculate that webs have little to no effect on the turning part.

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