These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Kiting is not cancer...

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
ggodhsup
relocation LLC.
#21 - 2015-04-11 15:21:55 UTC
it is ridiculous to me why someone would engage a kiting ship solo.

in any ship.

that being said, there is a reason i havent suffered a single lossmail to a garmur.

there are just ships that when i see them i d-scan i make sure im not on grid with them.

some people just have a hard time grasping the meta and use of d-scan.
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#22 - 2015-04-11 15:31:25 UTC
ggodhsup wrote:
it is ridiculous to me why someone would engage a kiting ship solo.

in any ship.

that being said, there is a reason i havent suffered a single lossmail to a garmur.

there are just ships that when i see them i d-scan i make sure im not on grid with them.

some people just have a hard time grasping the meta and use of d-scan.


So the counter to Garmurs is never to fight it? Sounds balanced.
ggodhsup
relocation LLC.
#23 - 2015-04-11 17:36:49 UTC  |  Edited by: ggodhsup
Dato Koppla wrote:
ggodhsup wrote:
it is ridiculous to me why someone would engage a kiting ship solo.

in any ship.

that being said, there is a reason i havent suffered a single lossmail to a garmur.

there are just ships that when i see them i d-scan i make sure im not on grid with them.

some people just have a hard time grasping the meta and use of d-scan.


So the counter to Garmurs is never to fight it? Sounds balanced.


read solo.

you seem mad.

hard time grasping the meta? maybe d-scan?

either way, my point stands. it will take half an afternoon to train a maulus alt on a free account, ill let you figure out the rest.

edit: better yet have a corp mate help you. solo fights are for youtube vids.

edit edit: ive had time to think about it, must be the meta. in this meta the garmur is brought into balance when you take away links, snakes, and nav hardwires. i would engage every garmur i saw if i knew for certain the pilot didnt have these things. so really the imbalance is in the pods and alt accounts.
Little Kicks
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2015-04-11 18:21:52 UTC
Your opinions are invalid. You cannot know about life without experiencing the entirety of it. Call back when you are dead.

*wink*
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#25 - 2015-04-11 19:49:46 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
IIRC Crosi, you fly your Garmurs linked and HG snaked, those things have no counters assuming an equal level of pilot skill. The stuff you listed has a chance of killing Garmurs IF they mess up, and that's not really an argument since X can always kill Y if Y messes bad enough up regardless of the ship.

8km/s cold Garmurs are basically immune to almost everything that can hit it. I remember trying to kill a Garmur in an LML Talwar only to find my missiles would peter out before they hit the Garmur and even then, if I did manage to hit him he could just pull range and warp out since he'd be fighting at 60km where nothing bar another Garmur/Orthrus could point him. Drones don't hit, rail corms you can just pull range and leave, faster MWD ships don't have a hope of catching you with 20km defensive scram, sentinel only neuts to 30km and is far slower, Hyena only webs to 40 and even if you get webbed, you can just warp out before he gets the point on etc etc

Garmurs are broken mostly because of how powerful offgrid links are but even then, the ship design allows you to scale ridiculously well with links that it's just stupid.


The fact that garmur has a lot of GTFO isnt a problem. It shares this with a lot of ships. Fact is any kite ship has plenty of GTFO if its user is paying attention.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#26 - 2015-04-12 00:53:10 UTC
Crosi is the Garmur pilot of my heart

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#27 - 2015-04-12 02:21:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Crosi is the Garmur pilot of my heart


Glad to see you have calmed down. Perhaps you should talk to chicken chasseur, he still has be blocked for killing his anti frigate omen in a frigate. Wasnt even a garmur.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#28 - 2015-04-12 05:41:35 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
There are no shortage to garmur counters.

Sentinel, reduces margin for error to minimal levels.
Cruor, reduces margin for error.
Hyena, reduces margin for error.
Dramiel, faster, tankier and more dps. Though weak vs defensive scram.
Multiple sniper corms or area denial coercers.
Element of surprise with an OH, dual overdrive derptron gets a lot of people garmur kills.

The one property that a boosted rep fleet point garmur has in common with all of these is its 2-200x more expensive.

There is no denying that kiting was a lot more challenging for me when i flew the maulus more, its incorrect to say there is no paper for the garmurs stone. Shiny killmails in space waiting to happen is a good thing.


Thanks for the input Crosi, while I'd say you have listed some fantastic counters to all kiters certainly in plexes I'd also say that perhaps I have not made my point clearly.

Why would I fly any of them when I could fly a garmur? In a garmur I can now engage a massive range of ships, or just leave. The ships you just listed are much more limited. I also don't want this to degenerate into solely an anti garmur post. I am very specifically gathering it, the orthrus and the t3 dessies into one pile. It's just too easy to get kills and run from people you don't like.


If they're so strong, why don't you fly them?


OOooh thats because I'm a scrub. I could, and I am sure I'd get lot's of lovely kills. I don't play EVE or shoot people in EVE for the killmail totals though. Beauty of a sandbox I suppose, we all get our thrills oneway or another.

Garmur - I do fly them but it's boring me shitless flying it. I like the rush of pvp and I rarely if ever get that from this ship.
Orthrus - My experience with the garmur tells me I would also not enjoy this.
T3 dessies - I'd be a hypocrite if I flew these, I am staunchly opposed to their inate flexibility in one ship. At least t3 cruisers have to refit.


https://zkillboard.com/kill/45506849/

0/10, try harder next time.


So OP loses Garmur. Decides Garmurs are over powered. Comes to spew sentiment all over forums. Is that about it?
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-04-12 09:06:27 UTC
Garmurs would be alot more reasonable without offgrid links.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#30 - 2015-04-12 09:16:57 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Garmurs would be alot more reasonable without offgrid links.


i do not see how links affect anything on ship balance.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#31 - 2015-04-12 10:25:04 UTC
I dislike links, I dislike OP ships and I dislike FOTM.

I like this thread, though.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2015-04-12 10:53:33 UTC
NOw I can brign up a point I made several years ago when CCP made the second nano nerf and caused this HORRIBLe scenario.. how creatign MWD overheat.


WHy you ask? Without MWD overheat you can kite relying on your skills and a small speed margin. But due to MWD you cannot kite unless you have a VERY LRGE speed margin over your opponnet. Otherwise a lucky timed overheat by him will SURELY get you scrammed.

That is specially true when flyign minmatar ships that have a small speed advantage agaisnt gallente that are ore agile. If you try to kit with a 15-20% speed advantage you will die, because he will overheat at some point and you will nee dot wait on average 5 secodns to overheat yourself (between 1 and 10.. and then it will be too late.

How people sovled that? Using Oversized AB that will not be scrammed.



How ccp should solve this? They need to reduec MWD overheat bonus to 25%.. and they ened to increase the speed module upgrades speed bonus. NO other overheat in game gives MORE bonus than a new module fitted to your ship.


Overdrives should be pushed to some 20% and others scale as well. THe final speed of the ships will barely change, but how you FIT your ship and the native speed differences will matter more.

The result will be people using more ships to kite, not onnly the ones that are EXTREME!!! and mwd kitingwill be doable again, and not a suicidal move on most scenarios.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#33 - 2015-04-12 14:56:53 UTC
Death to speed creep

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
evomad2
The Straw Men
#34 - 2015-04-12 20:24:34 UTC
I remember when this exact thread was about Vagabonds. /reminisces
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#35 - 2015-04-12 23:43:41 UTC
instead of nerfing Garmur CCP should keep on buffing EWAR until people actually start using it Shocked
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#36 - 2015-04-13 00:38:08 UTC
I live in highsec what is kiting.
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2015-04-13 01:32:15 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I live in highsec what is kiting.


It involves moving the ship at subwarp speeds my dear. You know having actual velocity. Have you tried moving your ship lately? Warp drives and Jump drives don't count. I sell training wheels for mercenaries that need training on how to move their ships outside the docking range of stations and the jump range of stargates that lead into another highsec system.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#38 - 2015-04-13 02:00:52 UTC
You mean like when I warp to zero or (very occasionally) 10km from my neutral scout?
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2015-04-13 02:38:15 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
You mean like when I warp to zero or (very occasionally) 10km from my neutral scout?


Not quite but close. Now let's do some baby steps first. First click the stargate/station and orbit at 3000 meters. I know I know it's scary to be out of jump/dock range of the stargate/station but it is needed to actually move your ship which is the first step in kiting(your ship moving).

Post again if you have done it and tell us how does it feel to be out of range of the gate/station.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#40 - 2015-04-13 02:53:18 UTC
While sitting somewhere foolish for no apparent reason is totally cool (it's just like sitting 17km off a gate for suspect baiting) I'm not about to orbit something like some kind of peon.