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New Burner Missions on Singularity

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Seamus Donohue
EVE University
Ivy League
#41 - 2015-04-16 23:44:55 UTC
SERPENTIS BURNER

I brought in a sacrificial Drake to test the tank of the Talos rats, using a Medium Micro Jump Drive to get in range quickly.

My log reads as follows:

[ 2015.04.16 23:03:04 ] (combat) 82 to Serpentis Burner Talos - Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile - Hits
[ 2015.04.16 23:03:04 ] (combat) 74 to Serpentis Burner Talos - Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile - Hits
[ 2015.04.16 23:03:04 ] (combat) 41 to Serpentis Burner Talos - Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Missile - Hits
[ 2015.04.16 23:03:04 ] (combat) 65 to Serpentis Burner Talos - Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile - Hits

Note that at my skills, the Drake has a 50% bonus to Kinetic damage, so we want to divide the 74 by 1.5 to get 49.3. So, adjusted damage dealt numbers are:

82 EM damage
65 Thermal damage
49.3 Kinetic damage
41 Explosive damage

So, those Talos burner rats are weakest to EM/Thermal damage. Maybe a Phantasm or Confessor can take it down?


BLOOD RAIDERS BURNER

I used a Gila to test the tank of the Prophecy rat. The Prophecy rat has non-negligible capacitor warfare AND stasis webification, and seems to be short-range fit (30 kilometers or less, I think?).

I had to get in close for missile tests with the Gila and got these numbers:

[ 2015.04.16 20:27:29 ] (combat) 31 to Blood Raider Burner Prophecy - Mjolnir Fury Light Missile - Hits
[ 2015.04.16 20:27:29 ] (combat) 56 to Blood Raider Burner Prophecy - Inferno Fury Light Missile - Hits
[ 2015.04.16 20:27:29 ] (combat) 75 to Blood Raider Burner Prophecy - Scourge Fury Light Missile - Hits
[ 2015.04.16 20:27:31 ] (combat) 47 to Blood Raider Burner Prophecy - Nova Fury Light Missile - Hits

The Gila has 50% bonus to thermal and kinetic missile damage at my skills, so when adjusted:

31 EM damage
37.3 Thermal damage
50 Kinetic damage
47 Explosive damage

So, the Prophecy burner rat is weakest to Kinetic/Explosive damage.

Survivor of Teskanen.  Fan of John Rourke.

I have video tutorials for EVE Online on my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/SeamusDonohueEVE
Royal Imperious
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2015-04-17 03:42:43 UTC
Please consider lowering the number of jumps from the agent to the mission. Since these are done in a cruiser the travel time is a bit too long.
Abavus Durden
Pukin' Dogs
#43 - 2015-04-19 17:33:40 UTC
This started as a post over here, but I've edited lightly and updated for some of the things I saw while playtesting Saturday evening. NOTE: I last ran the Talos on maybe Wednesday or Thursday.... last night I was humping the Prophecy. So if there have been tweaks to the Talos over the past few days I've missed them.


Thoughts so far:

Serpentis Talos:


  1. Overall, I like the Talos encounter. The matrix of sentry guns is pretty impressive upon warp-in. I like shooting at the Talos; it is a good looking hull. Overall the mission feels special/impressive enough to be included with the other existing burner missions.
  2. The Guristas Worm is my favorite frigate burner, and I really like a "big" burner that has the same kind of brawling feel. Any excuse to use blasters and hot antimatter....
  3. I don't like the far distances of the Talos mission... the distance, combined with damps, forces you to fly from A to B to C and burn up extra time. It could be just a little bit smaller and not lose any of its overall feel. Even moving the starting positions 15km closer to you would result in 30+km less flying.
  4. I wish the Talos ships flew a bit quicker, or perhaps varied speed, or perhaps each had their own AI so they acted differently. All three are the same in terms of mechanics and could/should act differently or each have its own flavor. Killing the first Talos is the hardest because of overall DMG inbound. After that, and the remainders feel more like cleanup.
  5. I wish the sentry matrix in the Talos encounter did more. They look cool but are generally ignorable.


Blood Raider Prophecy:


  1. I see that you increased the bounty on the Proph to 15M. It's now in-line with the Talos - Thanks!
  2. It's an interesting problem to solve - big tank, lots of tracking disruption, web, scram, and nos up close. However, the initial warp-in doesn't have the same "whoa" factor like the Talos sentry matrix. There needs to be some items in the pocket or something neat to look at. It doesn't feel as "epic" (forgive the overused term) as the Talos.
  3. I like that the Prophecy seems to adjust its speed by cycling its mwd. This is new behavior for a highsec mission and helps keep you on your toes.
  4. Other than variable speed, the mission isn't that much different than Duo of Death or other existing vanilla lvl4's, except with a restricted ship list. I'm afraid it won't hold up well as it ages unless some adjustments are made.
  5. Increasing the (relatively low) damage could make this much more challenging.
  6. I noticed last night that the orbit range is now about 8500m instead of 12km or so... this keeps you inside NOS range and makes cap mgmt a much larger issue. (And it also puts him inside easy web range, hooray). This is a good change, I think, but in retaliation I went to a passive shield fit (fit #1 and fit #2), which makes the mission into a "turn on guns and go make a sandwich" kind of fight. See previous comment about raising damage if you don't want passive fits to work.


Other

  1. How's about a Drifter burner? Warp in with one of the Jove Observation post as a backdrop and go head to head with some of the new baddies.
  2. Others have complained about high number of jumps. I'm also seeing more variability in the destination system. On SISI I can just chain-decline until I get an offer within 1-2 jumps, but once live this won't be an option. Tightening the # of jumps up would be appreciated.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#44 - 2015-04-20 13:34:44 UTC
With these new burners I'd like to further stress that CCP not just use database specs to align these ships to where they want them.

Please keep in mind that ships, like the Talos or Prophecy (as well as all those faction frigs), don't have an infinite number of fitting slots with infinite cap and infitite powergrid and CPU). Seeing frigates that drive super fast (speed fit), that also tank harder than any frigate players can build (many slots/rigs dedicated to just tank), that also have enormous dps (also heavy on the fitting requirements), near infinite tracking (how else are they going to hit a target at 2k while orbiting at 3km/s?), off the charts agility (why give them ludicrous top speeds and a tight orbit if they can't maintain that speed the whole time?), while having an array of ewar they use is like cheating. I don't want to see these new burners turn into the same thing, like when the old burners changed so that a full dps Enyo could no longer break their tank...

When CCP first announced the burners it was about having NPCs that had player-like fits, utilizing faction/deadspace/officer mods and implants. Except CCP became very narrow visioned and didn't realize that for some of their fits, they are not infact possible to match all the stats with any variety of mods. In some instances you can't even get a theoretical (fittings restrictions being ignored) dedicated bling fit ship to do 1 area of stats as well as they have the database table.

I would still like to see NPCs (all of them for that matter) use the fitting system the players use to determine their stats and abilities. Weaker ones would have very poorly put together fits with the worst modules, fits get better as difficulty increases, to burners that would have legitimate faction/deadspace/officer fits. This would eliminate the terribad 8 railgun ravens that also have 2-3 launchers and shoot defender missiles. Or smaller frigates that have more effective turrets than hardpoints so they get stacked on top of each other.
Seamus Donohue
EVE University
Ivy League
#45 - 2015-04-22 01:17:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Seamus Donohue
Okay, the Talos burner rats are only weakest to EM on the shield layer. The armor, which is much tougher, is weakest to Explosive.

The strange thing I noticed is that Nova Rage Heavy Assault Missiles (higher theoretical damage, 170 meters explosion radius) did less damage than the Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Assault Missiles (100 meters explosion radius), suggesting that these Talos rats are smaller than 170 meters signature radius. I was expecting them to be Talos-sized at 220 meters.

Also, CCP, are there any differences between the three Talos burner rats? It seems like the right-hand Talos rat has stronger armor repairs than the other two.

Survivor of Teskanen.  Fan of John Rourke.

I have video tutorials for EVE Online on my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/SeamusDonohueEVE
Atreides 47
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2015-04-22 21:57:01 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:

As of today we'll be disabling all missions except for these Burner missions to allow for easier testing. These missions will be available from any standard level 4 security agent, though other missions may initially be offered.

Make it an option in Mission UI or journal, to take only Burner missions. Really, almost all standart missions just suck and a waste of time for pilots older than 6 months.
Also I think you must redone/revamp whole mission system because you should have done this VERY LONG TIME AGO.

Long Live the Fighters !

CCP and nerfs - http://i.imgur.com/MejTGfL.jpg
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2015-04-25 18:03:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
Did some testing

Talos stats:
to Tank > Kin/Therm 50:50
to DPS (Talos is armor tanked)
Resistance Explo ~39
Resistance Kin ~52
Resistance Therm ~52

Ashimmu/Sentinel stats:
Sentinel
to Tank > no idea
to DPS
Resistance Therm ~47
Resistance Kin ~50

Ashimmu
to Tank > EM/Therm 50:50
to DPS (Ashimmu is armor tanked)
Resistance Kin ~69
Resistance Explo ~71


Talos report
Several options to kill them, thats good
- Deimos MWD + dual armor tanked, no booster links needed
- Myrmidon or BNI MJD+MWD + triple armor tanked, no booster links needed. Dual armor tanked, you need booster links
- VNI 100MN AB + active shield, works quite good, no booster links needed
- Ishtar 100MN AB + active shield, works but the VNI is better due to more speed, no booster links needed

The initial incoming DPS is high, any BC has problems to tank it until you have some speed. The VNI with 100MN AB works very good because low sig and relative high speed > less DPS incoming.
You can try Daredevil or Svipul with MWD both work until you get hit by a wrecking or smashing shot > instant death. The problem isn't approaching the Talos, it is more after you get out of orbit and before you can get speed and approach the next Talos you will get hit.


Ashimmu report:
The bad news, i found only kiting an option. Brawling vs that ridiculous NOS/Neut + scram and even triple web is not possible or only with at least dual/triple cap booster and heavy tank. Any passive tank will die fast because you have no speed due to triple web.
Drone kiting is no option either, the Ashimmu+Sentinel combo is killing Drones very fast.
Turret kiting is an option if you are an masochist, because the Sentinel are TDing you.....
Only option i found so far
- Cerberus RLML kiting and that works pretty good, even to easy.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
BUS1NESSMAN
MMMONSTER ENERGY
#48 - 2015-04-26 05:19:56 UTC
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2015-04-27 18:41:26 UTC
BUS1NESSMAN wrote:

that was looong.....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#50 - 2015-04-27 19:23:42 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
BUS1NESSMAN wrote:

that was looong.....


Way to long. I did it in a Cerb in half that time. I bet a Svipul can do it faster.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#51 - 2015-04-27 20:23:02 UTC
Jori McKie wrote:
Did some testing

Talos stats:
to Tank > Kin/Therm 50:50
to DPS (Talos is armor tanked)
Resistance Explo ~39
Resistance Kin ~52
Resistance Therm ~52

Ashimmu/Sentinel stats:
Sentinel
to Tank > no idea
to DPS
Resistance Therm ~47
Resistance Kin ~50

Ashimmu
to Tank > EM/Therm 50:50
to DPS (Ashimmu is armor tanked)
Resistance Kin ~69
Resistance Explo ~71


Talos report
Several options to kill them, thats good
- Deimos MWD + dual armor tanked, no booster links needed
- Myrmidon or BNI MJD+MWD + triple armor tanked, no booster links needed. Dual armor tanked, you need booster links
- VNI 100MN AB + active shield, works quite good, no booster links needed
- Ishtar 100MN AB + active shield, works but the VNI is better due to more speed, no booster links needed

The initial incoming DPS is high, any BC has problems to tank it until you have some speed. The VNI with 100MN AB works very good because low sig and relative high speed > less DPS incoming.
You can try Daredevil or Svipul with MWD both work until you get hit by a wrecking or smashing shot > instant death. The problem isn't approaching the Talos, it is more after you get out of orbit and before you can get speed and approach the next Talos you will get hit.


Ashimmu report:
The bad news, i found only kiting an option. Brawling vs that ridiculous NOS/Neut + scram and even triple web is not possible or only with at least dual/triple cap booster and heavy tank. Any passive tank will die fast because you have no speed due to triple web.
Drone kiting is no option either, the Ashimmu+Sentinel combo is killing Drones very fast.
Turret kiting is an option if you are an masochist, because the Sentinel are TDing you.....
Only option i found so far
- Cerberus RLML kiting and that works pretty good, even to easy.


I wouldn't say the Ashimmu is easy. If those Sentinels catch you because you did not kill them fast enough; then the Ashimmu will be on you real quick, and it can web out to over 30km.
BUS1NESSMAN
MMMONSTER ENERGY
#52 - 2015-04-28 04:05:51 UTC
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#53 - 2015-04-28 09:34:48 UTC
Brawling VS ashimmu is quite possible. With a broad.

Took a 2LSE+XLASB (and 3 passive EM/THERM resists) broad with 220s loaded with RF fusion.
When senti orbits stabilize, overheat on them, and you can bring them down fast even under TDs. Fast means faster than you cycle through full OH XLASB load. By the time both sentis are dead, you'll have full shield with ASB on reload.

Since sentis provide most of the DPS, you can pretty much continue on self regen from there. Well, at least you can down the burner faster than it eats through your full shield.
Luscius Uta
#54 - 2015-05-04 11:57:20 UTC
I wanted to try those missions, but the agent doesn't want to give me a mission (yes, I have the required standings) and instead tells me this:

"I'm sorry, but what I've got is promised to another pilot already. Could you come back later?"


Workarounds are not bugfixes.
CCP Paradox
#55 - 2015-05-04 14:37:22 UTC
Luscius, Singularity is currently running a different EVE version. You're a little late to this thread, the missions are on Tranquility now.
They will return on Singularity when we change versions.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#56 - 2015-05-04 22:01:10 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
Luscius, Singularity is currently running a different EVE version. You're a little late to this thread, the missions are on Tranquility now.
They will return on Singularity when we change versions.


Looks like the Ashimmu was changed when it went to Tranq. It now hits out to 70km? Was that intended? Kite setups no longer work, so you have to use a passive brawler.
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#57 - 2015-05-05 12:30:43 UTC
Serpentis burner mision on SiSi is broken. Inactive turrets don't show up in brackets.
Aghira
Systech Astromantics Shipyard Inc.
#58 - 2015-05-07 23:51:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Aghira
Chruker updated the database on his page to the Mosaic release so i looked at the Ashimmu/Sentinel combo and decided to give the Cerberus another try against them.

Ashimmu
Sentinel

Time to kill ~6:27min
DPS
540 with Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Tank
36K EHP - 9063 Shield HP(DamageProfile=Burner Ashimmu+Sentinel,260,100,75,90)
ASB 406 (502 heated)
Speed 275m/s - MWD 1730m/s - OH 2457m/s

Quote:
[Cerberus, Anomic Base - Blood Raider named/T2]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 150
EM Ward Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile

Medium Warhead Calefaction Catalyst II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

Hornet II x3


After landing on grid immediately turn around and MWD(heated 2nd and 3rd cycle) away from the Sentinels. After dealing with them orbit the Ashimmu at 85km.
At >80km the Ashimmu stopped shooting after a while.

It is 1:54am and i am getting a terrible headache, so off to bed. (Sadly only managed two tries before calling it a day, will probably give it some more tries this weekend.)

Es wird niemals so viel gelogen wie vor der Wahl, während des Krieges und nach der Jagd. (Otto von Bismarck)

english is not my native language.
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#59 - 2015-05-08 03:18:38 UTC
The easiest way to ashimmu is passive gila with T2 purgers, RLMLs and T1 drones (because you're gonna lose a couple).
One load of missiles for both senties, one more for the ashimmu. You'll lose 1-2 drones.
Artassaut
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2015-05-08 08:16:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Artassaut
Aghira wrote:
Chruker updated the database on his page to the Mosaic release so i looked at the Ashimmu/Sentinel combo and decided to give the Cerberus another try against them.

Grabbed your build for testing on SiSi, and had no issues dealing with the sentinels or the Ashimmu on 2 trial runs, despite only having HAC IV.

I'd say that setup is a success. I'll be giving it a go on Tranquility once it appears for me, and will report if I get the same results there.

Tested on Tranquility, worked. Drones are useful for when Sentinels get too close, they draw aggro almost immediately and prevent them from webbing you, so T1 drones would work best cost-wise for distraction purposes.