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Guide: How to warp to any location within a 175km by 175km area.

Author
Saladinae
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2015-04-05 15:29:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Saladinae
This guide assumes you have 3 pilots for the 2D case (3 points makes plane) and 4 pilots for the 3D case (4 linearly independent points makes a space). This guide also assumes that you either know a programmer or you are a programmer. It also assumes that have the time, patience and knowledge of tactical overlay to make the required bookmarks.

The 2D case:
Using a total of 4 bookmarks, making a 175km by 175km square graph, one bookmark at the center of the square (origin of the graph), and two bookmarks at the end of the x and y axes of the graph, we can warp anywhere within the 175km x 175km grid. It should be noted that the following method can be adapted to a 3D cube, but for simplicity the 2D case will be described on the forums.

In the picture below, our pilot wants to warp to Point C, which is given by the coordinates (x,y). The pilot starts at the Green Corner, warps partially towards the orange corner, then warps partially towards the red corner, landing precisely on Point C.

http://s28.postimg.org/iduuc09bh/Pinpoint_Warp_by_Saladinae.png

A diagram drawn to scale is the next image:

http://s28.postimg.org/b9uuximb1/Art_of_Warp_1.png


To determine the coordinates (x,y), there must be an OBSERVER in the center (observer 1 at Point B), and two observers equidistant from the centers, preferably at right angles (observers 2 and 3 at points A and D). Although the observers at points at A and D need not be at right angles, nor equidistant from the the center, it makes the math very easy to place them equidistant at a right angle from the center.

A basic application (easily programmed on a hand held graphing calculator) can readily determine the coordinates (x,y) of the target destination. Then it calculates where the red line (through Red Corner and Destination) intersects the side of the square. The application then spits out two values: K and L.

The pilot warps from Green Corner towards Orange Corner "within distance K" then warps towards Red Corner "within distance L"

The image below shows the programmer how to determine which corner is the "start" and "regulator" and "end."
http://s30.postimg.org/d82fsp5wh/No_Dead_Zones_in_Warp_Paradigm.png

Dead Zones:
The title of the above picture is the "No Dead Zones." A Dead Zone is a region which a pilot cannot warp based on the limitations of game engine. Suppose our pilot said EUREKA, I can warp anywhere on a 500km by 500km grid by scaling the distance between the bookmarks!

I'd say: LOL! The "warp within" option is limited to 100km by the game engine. This means an area (starting from the center) is inaccessible, as these points are much further than 100km from any of the corners. The image below shows a massive Dead Zone on the 500km by 500km graph, a 200km by 200km graph, and then a 175 x 175 graph (and 155 by 155 graph). The 200km, 175km and 155km graphs are drawn to scale.

http://s12.postimg.org/mf3ar0cjh/Dead_Zone.png

colored version: http://postimg.org/image/mb7epctd3/1443bb91/

This above image actually shows that the 200km by 200km dead zone is intolerable, so I changed title of thread to 175km by 175km. The grid cannot go below 155km by 155km, since the bookmarked corners must be more than 150km from each other (otherwise you can't initiate warp).

This is an image for a 465km by 465km graph.
http://s15.postimg.org/m40mr6y6j/500_by_500_expansion.png

This is same 465km by 465km graph with positions of 3 observers (3D case requires 3 observers to determine target destination). The programmer must write a code that determines which of the 9 grids (27 cubes in 3D) the target destination is contained within.

http://s28.postimg.org/e5oxv78dp/500_by_500_expansion.png

This image shows the programmer how to warp as close as possible to a target within the Dead Zone:
http://s14.postimg.org/hf577j2ip/How_to_Handle_Dead_Zones.png

The final image shows another use of the system, warp to a point within OPTIMAL RANGE of your target:
http://s7.postimg.org/pyov8f7t7/500_by_500_expansion_with_optimal.png

I will do more updates on this (especially the 3D expansion of the concept) if there are positive reviews of the system being used.

Winmatar > Everything else

Arla Sarain
#2 - 2015-04-05 15:41:39 UTC
Wouldn't it be more prudent to consider a 250 by 250 square, that way if you warp at 100 you are still within warp distance of another BM.

Saladinae
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2015-04-05 15:59:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Saladinae
Arla Sarain wrote:
Wouldn't it be more prudent to consider a 250 by 250 square, that way if you warp at 100 you are still within warp distance of another BM.



CHeck out the "dead zone" image, which is in the OP. The grid needs to be between 155km by 155km to 180km by 180km, depending upon "dead zone tolerance."

http://postimg.org/image/d7b2ab5h5/

Remember we're also talking about precision warping, not estimation warping.

Winmatar > Everything else

Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#4 - 2015-04-05 21:20:43 UTC
shouldn't you only need two pilots for the 2D square? Set one pilot as the centre, go off 175km from that point with the other pilot, that gives you the centre plus one corner. Simultaneously, the pilot that was at centre can go 175km travelling perpendicular to the corner pilot's heading. That gives you two corners plus a centre. Then both pilots could warp straight back to centre, keep going 175km in the same heading and reach the final two corners.
Saladinae
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2015-04-06 02:14:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Saladinae
Plato Forko wrote:
shouldn't you only need two pilots for the 2D square? Set one pilot as the centre, go off 175km from that point with the other pilot, that gives you the centre plus one corner. Simultaneously, the pilot that was at centre can go 175km travelling perpendicular to the corner pilot's heading. That gives you two corners plus a centre. Then both pilots could warp straight back to centre, keep going 175km in the same heading and reach the final two corners.



No. with only two pilots and target you'd have ambiguity.

See image below, tell me which one is correct:
http://s8.postimg.org/wok4fhit1/Ambiguity.png

A third observer makes it into a function (one output).


Also your idea takes a lot of time. With three observers standing still they can all enter their distances towards the target into an application and you get the warp instructions immediately.

If the application has a clock, you can even do motion prediction and warp where the target will be if the target is moving --- upon demand. And with a clock, the observers don't even have to enter their distances at the same time since SIDE-SIDE-SIDE (Observer 1, Target, Observer 2/3 triangle) gives an immediate motion prediction yield, with a WAIT command in the code for the second pilot to resolve the ambiguity to reject the invalid vector.


However, if you didn't have a hostile target and you simply wanted to warp to an (x,y) coordinate, you could do so with NO observers, since you're choosing the (x,y).

On a side note, I'm shocked this thread didn't get more responses. We're all nerds here, don't be shy.

Winmatar > Everything else

Saladinae
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#6 - 2015-04-07 16:43:13 UTC
I wrote the code for a single 2D 155x155 grid today, I'll make a video of the process working in-game.

Winmatar > Everything else

Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#7 - 2015-04-07 21:31:36 UTC
Saladinae wrote:
Also your idea takes a lot of time. With three observers standing still they can all enter their distances towards the target into an application and you get the warp instructions immediately.


So you're just talking about triangulating a position and warping relative to static BMs. For a moment I thought you were talking about calculating where to intercept a target, but for that you would need to also calculate target speed and heading. So, just to clarify, all of this is only applicable to figure out where to land on a target that is sitting still within the bookmarked area?
Saladinae
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2015-04-08 00:29:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Saladinae
Plato Forko wrote:
Saladinae wrote:
Also your idea takes a lot of time. With three observers standing still they can all enter their distances towards the target into an application and you get the warp instructions immediately.


So you're just talking about triangulating a position and warping relative to static BMs. For a moment I thought you were talking about calculating where to intercept a target, but for that you would need to also calculate target speed and heading. So, just to clarify, all of this is only applicable to figure out where to land on a target that is sitting still within the bookmarked area?


It's easy to calculate the future position of a target moving in a straight line. For a straight line, simple get the velocity of the target (speed and direction) and the future position is a function of time. You would instruct the application to give you the target's position in 30-60 seconds depending on the warp speed/agility of your ship.

Anything moving in a curved line could be projected by quadratic regression, but it would take an entire guide to itself to explain this.

Try to think big. Imagine a large sov battle in nullsec, where the defenders had 3 observers feeding data into an application (their distances to certain targets) upon demand of an FC/wingcommander/squadcommander, and then the application feeds the the output (warp instructions) to the FC/WC/SC to warp his fleet/wing/squad to a precise location.

Here's an image of sniper fleet warping to their optimal range from a target. Notice that they can warp to any point on the brown circle. If the application has a plugin/feature with a GUI, they can simply choose a point on the circle and get their instructions.

http://s7.postimg.org/pyov8f7t7/500_by_500_expansion_with_optimal.png

How about a bomber fleet? Imagine getting a precise warp-in (in 3D version) to any point on the optimal range sphere you desired!?! Remember that the bomber fleet doesn't' even to be on grid, only the observers need to be on grid (preferably cloaked). This could be very effective during extreme TIDI!

Back in 2012 or 2013, when I was in RvB, I created a system of polar coordinate bookmarks that allowed me to always get pretty close to my target by simply eyeballing it. When I shared my secret, I was warned by the RvB staff not to use it anymore since it was distressing RvB veterans (the veterans would often sit off the enemy station and try to bait/kite/snipe the noobs. Although this was a good learning experience for the noobs, my system turned the veterans into the prey LOL, as I would warp noob fleets on top of them).


I was stress testing my code in Starcraft 2 map editor, here's some pictures, first three pics are me entering the inputs, which is the distance of the red marine (target) to the three blue marines (origin, top observer, right observer). The last picture shows the equation of the Line through the Target Corner and the Target in mx + b form.

http://postimg.org/image/c1vs2h6u9/
http://postimg.org/image/aanix39l9/
http://postimg.org/image/kudc2cyfn/

m = 0.36 is the slope (about 1/3) and b = 49 (y-intercept)

So the line passing through the target (red marine) the the top right marine (corner of Quadrant I) is about 20 degrees inclination and nearly bisects the Origin and top-middle marine on the y-axis, just as it appears on the minimap. So far my code is working.
http://postimg.org/image/b1bdy0g6j/



I developed a quick method using 3 pilots to generate the 16 bookmarks in 2D (should take a half hour), and 4 pilots for the 64 bookmarks in 3D (should take a half preparation by the first pilot, who makes the x, y, z axes, then another half hour for the four pilots to complete the bookmarks and then share them with eachother).

I call it the plow method, since it looks like farmers plowing a field.
http://s29.postimg.org/z929mo8fb/2_D_plow_method.png

Winmatar > Everything else

Arla Sarain
#9 - 2015-04-08 13:27:56 UTC
CCP just uncapped bookmark count.

:D

I get the impression it won't last very long.
Saladinae
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2015-04-08 14:42:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Saladinae
Arla Sarain wrote:
CCP just uncapped bookmark count.

:D

I get the impression it won't last very long.


In the year of 2015 and the data storage capabilities available compared to a a decade+ ago, the only reason to reverse the change would be to deliberately sabotage using bookmarks in a manner like this.

Winmatar > Everything else

Saladinae
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2015-04-08 21:26:12 UTC
Would CCP allow this type of activity, where you manually feed inputs into a calculator, and the you manually apply the outputs of the calculator for a direct in-game advantage?

Winmatar > Everything else