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If Dust/Legion were MMORTS instead of FPS
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Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#41 - 2015-04-08 00:21:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
Noriko Mai wrote:
Kuronaga wrote:
Noriko its better off this way.

Sure if you don't have a PS4 then getting one would be a minor inconvenience (though not as much as getting any respectable PC rig honestly). But there is nothing stopping them from proper KB/M support other than priorities being ass backwards. It could play pretty much the same exact way, and with the added benefit of virtually no hacking as thats a lot more difficult on a console FPS.

This is probably the ideal scenario, all things considered.


Controllers need autoaim to make the game (FPS) fun, because it's impossible to play on even slightly the same level as someone with KB/M. Dust hast KB/M support. But I won't buy a console for one game. I don't even have a freakin TV... You can buy a PC at lower cost as the ps4 and have better performace (see The Potato Masher).
I don't play on my couch eating doritos. I freak the _fuck out if I buy a game, play multiplayer and then have to compete with money spend and not with skill. I don't play f2p because of microtransaction hell and constant assrape if you don't pay. It's just a totaly different audience. To each his own, I guess.

Kuronaga wrote:

The only real benefit of putting it on PC would be a higher-end graphical experience, and let's be serious here. CCP blueballs us on graphics all the time as it is because they are worried about the low end user being left behind. This would be no different.


The cheating argument is kinda poor. Every freakin console game with online mode is full of cheaters.

Graphics are important if they want to become the next BF/CoD clone that fails. Gameplay is important if they want to survive. And I just don't get it what is so hard go the way UT4 does or even cooperate with them to create a side project with EVE connection. That engine and ambitious vision connected to EVE planetary/station/whatever combat. Imagine fighting over your station just by jumping in your Soldier Clone. No need to rely on someone somewhere on a console with no actual connection to EVE. Fight in space, fight on ground, the choice is yours! You and your friends (EVE player or not doesn't matter) fight together for your _shit. How awesome would that be?!?!

Imagine the potential, imagine the possibilities... dream with me Smile



The cheating argument is top tier. When I played CS and Battlefield 3 on PC, saw cheaters every day. In my time in Dust I've seen one, back during beta.

Ultimately whether you believe the argument or not comes down to whether you want to believe it or not. It is the purest truthiness that was ever truthed its truth. And if you won't get a console for a single game, all I can tell you is... clearly you're not a real gamer Cool
MidnightWyvern
Fukamichi Corporation
SAYR Galactic
#42 - 2015-04-08 00:23:44 UTC
Kuronaga wrote:
Noriko Mai wrote:
Kuronaga wrote:
Noriko its better off this way.

Sure if you don't have a PS4 then getting one would be a minor inconvenience (though not as much as getting any respectable PC rig honestly). But there is nothing stopping them from proper KB/M support other than priorities being ass backwards. It could play pretty much the same exact way, and with the added benefit of virtually no hacking as thats a lot more difficult on a console FPS.

This is probably the ideal scenario, all things considered.


Controllers need autoaim to make the game (FPS) fun, because it's impossible to play on even slightly the same level as someone with KB/M. Dust hast KB/M support. But I won't buy a console for one game. I don't even have a freakin TV... You can buy a PC at lower cost as the ps4 and have better performace (see The Potato Masher).
I don't play on my couch eating doritos. I freak the _fuck out if I buy a game, play multiplayer and then have to compete with money spend and not with skill. I don't play f2p because of microtransaction hell and constant assrape if you don't pay. It's just a totaly different audience. To each his own, I guess.

Kuronaga wrote:

The only real benefit of putting it on PC would be a higher-end graphical experience, and let's be serious here. CCP blueballs us on graphics all the time as it is because they are worried about the low end user being left behind. This would be no different.


The cheating argument is kinda poor. Every freakin console game with online mode is full of cheaters.

Graphics are important if they want to become the next BF/CoD clone that fails. Gameplay is important if they want to survive. And I just don't get it what is so hard go the way UT4 does or even cooperate with them to create a side project with EVE connection. That engine and ambitious vision connected to EVE planetary/station/whatever combat. Imagine fighting over your station just by jumping in your Soldier Clone. No need to rely on someone somewhere on a console with no actual connection to EVE. Fight in space, fight on ground, the choice is yours! You and your friends (EVE player or not doesn't matter) fight together for your _shit. How awesome would that be?!?!

Imagine the potential, imagine the possibilities... dream with me Smile



The cheating argument is top tier. When I played CS and Battlefield 3 on PC, saw cheaters every day. In my time in Dust I've seen one, back during beta.

Ultimately whether you believe the argument or not comes down to whether you want to believe it or not. It is the purest truthiness that was ever truthed its truth. And if you won't get a console for a single game, all I can tell you is... clearly you're not a real gamer Cool

I don't know if I'd go THAT, far.

My own metric for buying a console is that it has at least 3 games that I want for it.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#43 - 2015-04-08 00:35:34 UTC
MidnightWyvern wrote:

I believe that trying to bring console players into New Eden was an inspired move that was messed up by gross mismanagement. I personally believe that having the two games on two different platforms with the ability to work together across them is an excellent step toward stuffing this "PC Master Race" nonsense.

You badly miss the mark on this. While consoles can be fine games, a game designed for a controller can't have as much depth due to the limited control set relative to a KB/M. The number of secondary abilities, the ease of accessing menu's, navigating starmaps to pick contract regions, things like that all flow easier on KB/M.
And that depth is part of what is lacking on Dust currently. You can't create a true 'leader' position who designates objectives freely on the map half the time, because controllers just don't have that level of control. It's why you see so few RTS games on consoles and they don't do well. And Dust should be incorporating some elements of RTS play in order to create more tactics rather than the current, run, gun and die in 2 secs (Unless you use magic strafing that lets you walk through laser beams repeatedly and take no damage)
MidnightWyvern
Fukamichi Corporation
SAYR Galactic
#44 - 2015-04-08 01:45:37 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
MidnightWyvern wrote:

I believe that trying to bring console players into New Eden was an inspired move that was messed up by gross mismanagement. I personally believe that having the two games on two different platforms with the ability to work together across them is an excellent step toward stuffing this "PC Master Race" nonsense.

You badly miss the mark on this. While consoles can be fine games, a game designed for a controller can't have as much depth due to the limited control set relative to a KB/M. The number of secondary abilities, the ease of accessing menu's, navigating starmaps to pick contract regions, things like that all flow easier on KB/M.
And that depth is part of what is lacking on Dust currently. You can't create a true 'leader' position who designates objectives freely on the map half the time, because controllers just don't have that level of control. It's why you see so few RTS games on consoles and they don't do well. And Dust should be incorporating some elements of RTS play in order to create more tactics rather than the current, run, gun and die in 2 secs (Unless you use magic strafing that lets you walk through laser beams repeatedly and take no damage)

Dust was originally stated both in 2009 and in 2012 to have a dedicated Commander position that had an RTS interface and controlled the Mobile Command Center, moving it around the map like a Titan in Battlefield 2142.

Again, gross mismanagement by the original project leads meant that this and many other features never came to be.

However, right now a Squad Leader can designate objectives via a contextual menu in first-person, or going into an overview map and placing objectives anywhere on the map.

You don't "need" a keyboard and mouse to have depth in a game. What Dust lacks is the fault of incompetent leadership resulting in sub-par development, not a statement as to the platform not being able to handle it. Use of contextual controls activated by combinations of buttons allows you to assign functions to a controller the same way you can those expensive gaming mice with 11 buttons on them.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#45 - 2015-04-08 02:07:21 UTC
There is a reason squad leaders almost never use those features, even while in first person, because placing them accurately is terrible.
Same as that Commander position would have had a terrible time of it on the console.

Consoles simply don't do some things well. Even if they are amazing at other things.
Gal Udan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2015-04-08 09:46:36 UTC
Gorongo Frostfyr wrote:
would you/would it:
prefer it?
collide with EVE's design philosophy?
be again too niche?

I wonder if CCP ever considered making a RTS or even a turn-based game connected to the worlds of New Eden.



Dust wasn't too niche of a game. Dust was a PS3 exclusive. This is why Dust failed.

If it had launched on PC it would have fared MUCH better.
Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#47 - 2015-04-08 11:10:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
Gal Udan wrote:
Gorongo Frostfyr wrote:
would you/would it:
prefer it?
collide with EVE's design philosophy?
be again too niche?

I wonder if CCP ever considered making a RTS or even a turn-based game connected to the worlds of New Eden.



Dust wasn't too niche of a game. Dust was a PS3 exclusive. This is why Dust failed.

If it had launched on PC it would have fared MUCH better.



Exclusives do just fine. There is even a good argument that it would do far worse on PC because the PC market is already completely saturated with a far vaster library.


Dust In fact had a lot of interest surrounding it, and there are still people playing it. The problem that drove off the average player was that it ran incredibly poorly. Shanghai did not have developers with a lot of experience using the Cell Processor, and the PS3 has almost no RAM. This leads to the game running at an incredibly poor frame rate as it has to keep track of every potential dropsuit and vehicle fitting on every character on the field, on top of the large environments themselves.

The hardware would be just barely up to the task if you had people who were at the absolute top of the industry for optimization. CCP Shanghai was not.

But the sluggishness of the game is what ultimately drove people away from it. Almost nobody wants to play a game that "feels" bad. And Dust felt bad.

The ones who do play it come from a few different camps. Broke college students, people from poorer countries who are just now able to get last-gen consoles at an affordable price (you will see a ridiculous number of south american players fyi), and supreme eve-dust enthusiasts.

But the average player waves the game off, because it feels bad. And they aren't wrong.
Gorongo Frostfyr
#48 - 2015-04-09 04:55:34 UTC
Gal Udan wrote:
Gorongo Frostfyr wrote:
would you/would it:
prefer it?
collide with EVE's design philosophy?
be again too niche?

I wonder if CCP ever considered making a RTS or even a turn-based game connected to the worlds of New Eden.

Dust wasn't too niche of a game. Dust was a PS3 exclusive. This is why Dust failed.

If it had launched on PC it would have fared MUCH better.


Question was: Dust as MMORTS may be too niche. The again referred to EVE, which is a niche game.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#49 - 2015-04-09 06:39:22 UTC
Gorongo Frostfyr wrote:
would you/would it:
prefer it?
collide with EVE's design philosophy?
be again too niche?

I wonder if CCP ever considered making a RTS or even a turn-based game connected to the worlds of New Eden.

RTS like the CoH Online Beta? It was really good game. I played it until they shut it down. I miss it.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
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