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Scorpion Navy Issue for Lvl 4's
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Dominus Immortalus
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-04-04 03:42:04 UTC
Hello,

I have a Scorpion Navy Issue from a few years ago, but have no idea how to fit it for level 4 missions anymore. I run missions for ISK when I feel like I won't be able to explore or PvP without my son waking up and needing me. I would really appreciate some advice. My ultimate goal is a golem, if that makes any difference.

Thank you very much.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-04-04 04:15:36 UTC
My advise is to sell your glorified SNI which is amazingly expensive and purchase Rattlesnake which is amazingly cheap.
In the end you would have more dps and same tanking ability.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#3 - 2015-04-04 04:46:46 UTC
A Rattlesnake is a completely different ship to an SNI/Golem/RNI since it is primarily a droneboat, unless OP has drone skills a Rattler won't do him any good. As for the SNI, it's definitely useable as a L4 mission ship but I would prefer a RNI since you don't need all that tank for L4s and the application bonus on the RNI is very useful.

I have a bunch of fits saved but I'm not at home, I'll update the post later when I get home if you need specific fits.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-04-04 05:18:53 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
A Rattlesnake is a completely different ship to an SNI/Golem/RNI since it is primarily a droneboat, unless OP has drone skills a Rattler won't do him any good. As for the SNI, it's definitely useable as a L4 mission ship but I would prefer a RNI since you don't need all that tank for L4s and the application bonus on the RNI is very useful.

I have a bunch of fits saved but I'm not at home, I'll update the post later when I get home if you need specific fits.



when was the last time you've flown Rattler? Since when Rattler completly different from SNI? even without drones they got almost the same dps.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#5 - 2015-04-04 05:25:40 UTC
navy scorp mostly works, but I would prefer a navy raven. A rattlesnake is a somewhat decent choice, but as said, a bit different.

the navy scorp/raven fit is pretty much the same. BCUS in the lows, tank + painters in the mids, cruise in the highs, and rigors/flares in the rigs.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Dominus Immortalus
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-04-04 05:35:50 UTC
Thanks for all the advice so far!

The reason I have a Scorpion, is that I was told (again, many years ago) that it was perfect for mission running when I had to occasionaly go AFK. If a rattlesnake is better for that, then I would definitely switch. I used to fly a raven, but when I had to leave in the middle of a mission with little warning, things rarely ended well.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-04-04 06:11:44 UTC
Dominus Immortalus wrote:
Thanks for all the advice so far!

The reason I have a Scorpion, is that I was told (again, many years ago) that it was perfect for mission running when I had to occasionaly go AFK. If a rattlesnake is better for that, then I would definitely switch. I used to fly a raven, but when I had to leave in the middle of a mission with little warning, things rarely ended well.

Same resist bonus. Rattle has more base shield and regen but sni has one more midslot. Both are tough nuts. If you dont have heavy or sentry skills up you might as well stick to sni.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#8 - 2015-04-04 07:06:16 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
A Rattlesnake is a completely different ship to an SNI/Golem/RNI since it is primarily a droneboat, unless OP has drone skills a Rattler won't do him any good. As for the SNI, it's definitely useable as a L4 mission ship but I would prefer a RNI since you don't need all that tank for L4s and the application bonus on the RNI is very useful.

I have a bunch of fits saved but I'm not at home, I'll update the post later when I get home if you need specific fits.



when was the last time you've flown Rattler? Since when Rattler completly different from SNI? even without drones they got almost the same dps.


....If your drones skills are terrible, flying a Rattler would be a waste as you'd get more out of an SNI/RNI and you'd be losing out on a key reason to fly a Rattler since it's primarily (read: not exclusively) a droneboat. Comparing a SNI and a Rattler based on missile damage alone is just plain idiotic.

OP didn't mention his level of drone skills so I was under the assumption he's mostly trained for the SNI/RNI skills which needs barely any drone skills.

That being said now that OP has mentioned that he wants something that's afk friendly a Rattlesnake is definitely a good choice if you have the sentry drone skills to back it up since drones keep shooting even after a target is dead and the Rattlesnake has a massive tank to work with so you can overtank it so you can easily permatank most missions. If your drone skills are poor stick with the SNI for the time being while you train the drone skills up.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-04-04 09:03:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeanne-Luise Argenau
op the raven navy is faster than a scorpion navy in my experience as it often needs one less salvo to kill rats.
But if u want to fly a sni i would fit it like

[Scorpion Navy Issue, mission]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Internal Force Field Array I

Large Micro Jump Drive
X-Large Shield Booster II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II

where as the mjd mostly is used as a gtfo option
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-04-04 09:49:38 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
A Rattlesnake is a completely different ship to an SNI/Golem/RNI since it is primarily a droneboat, unless OP has drone skills a Rattler won't do him any good. As for the SNI, it's definitely useable as a L4 mission ship but I would prefer a RNI since you don't need all that tank for L4s and the application bonus on the RNI is very useful.

I have a bunch of fits saved but I'm not at home, I'll update the post later when I get home if you need specific fits.



when was the last time you've flown Rattler? Since when Rattler completly different from SNI? even without drones they got almost the same dps.


....If your drones skills are terrible, flying a Rattler would be a waste as you'd get more out of an SNI/RNI and you'd be losing out on a key reason to fly a Rattler since it's primarily (read: not exclusively) a droneboat. Comparing a SNI and a Rattler based on missile damage alone is just plain idiotic.

OP didn't mention his level of drone skills so I was under the assumption he's mostly trained for the SNI/RNI skills which needs barely any drone skills.

That being said now that OP has mentioned that he wants something that's afk friendly a Rattlesnake is definitely a good choice if you have the sentry drone skills to back it up since drones keep shooting even after a target is dead and the Rattlesnake has a massive tank to work with so you can overtank it so you can easily permatank most missions. If your drone skills are poor stick with the SNI for the time being while you train the drone skills up.


No no no
Even if you able to use T1 versions of heavies and sentries (which is not require much skill to be trained) you would simply outperform SNI full stop

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#11 - 2015-04-04 11:18:12 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
A Rattlesnake is a completely different ship to an SNI/Golem/RNI since it is primarily a droneboat, unless OP has drone skills a Rattler won't do him any good. As for the SNI, it's definitely useable as a L4 mission ship but I would prefer a RNI since you don't need all that tank for L4s and the application bonus on the RNI is very useful.

I have a bunch of fits saved but I'm not at home, I'll update the post later when I get home if you need specific fits.



>Gurista Ship
>Droneskills required


A 3 weeks old toon can run L4s in a Gila.

All you need for the Rattler is the ability to launch Heavy Drones, the Rolebonus does the rest.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-04-04 11:54:04 UTC
navy raven outperforms in most cases due to it's application bonus.

With large missiles the base damage is already pretty high but you need to be able to make them apply to cruisers or you spend far too much time on them.

Art of Explosions
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#13 - 2015-04-04 20:04:30 UTC
The SNI will have an advantage over the Rattlesnake when applying EM and explosive damage, but the Rattlesnake will have a higher alpha for thermal and kinetic damage - in addition to the extra drone damage. The one thing that hasn't been pointed out is that the Rattlesnake receives its missile damage bonus from Gallente Battleship, so if this isn't trained up that makes a huge dent in missile damage.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2015-04-04 22:07:13 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
The SNI will have an advantage over the Rattlesnake when applying EM and explosive damage, but the Rattlesnake will have a higher alpha for thermal and kinetic damage - in addition to the extra drone damage. The one thing that hasn't been pointed out is that the Rattlesnake receives its missile damage bonus from Gallente Battleship, so if this isn't trained up that makes a huge dent in missile damage.


Good catch up! So, scratch the Rattler from the view all eyes at mighty Golem (isk machine).

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-04-04 23:19:51 UTC
btw anybody tried a rhml sni/rni/rattle? its one weapon system i havent checked out
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#16 - 2015-04-04 23:34:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ion Kirst
One thing to mention, with Cruise Missiles all the Caldari BSs have the same dps. (except for the rattler). However, their volley varies. The Raven and the SNI have the same volley. The CNR and the Golem have the same volley.

For example (for me, with my implants and ship mods.):

Raven - 1025 dps / 6172 volley, 5% RoF, 10% vel.
SNI - 1025 dps / 6172 volley, 5% RoF, 4% resists
CNR - 1025 dps / 8229 volley, 10% vel., 5% exp. rad.
Golem - 1025 dps / 8229 volley, 10% vel., 5% exp. vel.
Rattlesnake - about 1690 dps / 7451 volley (900 missiles, 790 heavies), 10% bonus on Kin. and Therm. missiles, 275% for sentries and heavy dmg and hit points.

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-04-04 23:53:17 UTC
Ion Kirst wrote:
One thing to mention, with Cruise Missiles all the Caldari BSs have the same dps. (except for the rattler). However, their volley varies. The Raven and the SNI have the same volley. The CNR and the Golem have the same volley.

For example (for me, with my implants and ship mods.):

Raven - 1025 dps / 6172 volley, 5% RoF, 10% vel.
SNI - 1025 dps / 6172 volley, 5% RoF, 4% resists
CNR - 1025 dps / 8229 volley, 10% vel., 5% exp. rad.
Golem - 1025 dps / 8229 volley, 10% vel., 5% exp. vel.
Rattlesnake - about 1690 dps / 7451 volley (900 missiles, 790 heavies), 10% bonus on Kin. and Therm. missiles, 275% for sentries and heavy dmg and hit points.

-Kirst


i would like to see your rattle fit as my damage is pretty much 50/50 with 1550 dps 820 in missiles rest in drones and i dont see any way of increasing the damage besides implants ok and i fitted sentries in eft
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#18 - 2015-04-05 00:59:42 UTC
Rattlesnake:

5 x Cruise II, Scourge Fury, 3 x Caldari BCUs, 900dps

2 x Ogre II, 3 x Drone Dmg Amp II, 793 dps

Mids: whatever

CM-603, MP-703, GP-805, TN-903, RL-1005.

Have to be honest, those numbers are from EFT. I do not have a Rattler.

I do have the other BSs, and my numbers in game match the numbers in EFT for them. So, they are right on.

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#19 - 2015-04-05 17:04:37 UTC
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
op the raven navy is faster than a scorpion navy in my experience as it often needs one less salvo to kill rats.
But if u want to fly a sni i would fit it like

[Scorpion Navy Issue, mission]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Internal Force Field Array I

Large Micro Jump Drive
X-Large Shield Booster II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II

where as the mjd mostly is used as a gtfo option


That's about 2 or 3 too many TPs.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2015-04-05 22:54:59 UTC
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
op the raven navy is faster than a scorpion navy in my experience as it often needs one less salvo to kill rats.
But if u want to fly a sni i would fit it like

[Scorpion Navy Issue, mission]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Internal Force Field Array I

Large Micro Jump Drive
X-Large Shield Booster II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II

where as the mjd mostly is used as a gtfo option


That's about 2 or 3 too many TPs.


tbh i know that too but dont know what else to fit in those mids as the tank is more than enough in my experience, also should say even my raven navy had 2 tp's and as a scorp doesnt have the application bonuse 3 tps should be in order still the last i dont know
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