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eve firepower
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solrac lara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-04-03 17:48:00 UTC
I ve been reading abaut eve lore this days and i read abaut a titan rendering a planet unhabitable and a short story abaut a bunker made of diamond and stuff and that have me thinking how powerfull are the guns mounted on eve ships i mean gigajoules lasers seems poor for a civilization that can pretty much lifewipe planets, and have antimatter ammunition also how powerfull are the ship reactors and how much power they can storage because megawatts doesnt seem logical for ships ubicated in the year 21k, i even did some math and just to power up the DD of a titan you would need a reactor with a power output of 1.9 zettawats thats alot is like 1000 or 10000 times the energy that a type I civ can produce and is orders alot of orders of magnitude above the terawatts you see in the titan powergrid so anyone versed in the lore could please help me with my doubts ?
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#2 - 2015-04-03 23:18:28 UTC
That was an incredibly unbroken sentence moving from topic to topic , really quite hypnotic, but ahum.

I believe compared to most other sci-fi franchises EVE is around the middle in terms of firepower. We're not as patheticly outgunned by everyone as Mass Effect 'verse but certainly not as overpowered like say, The Empire from Star Wars where even the most basic starship weapons are in several hundred megaton / gigawatt range.

Now if you were asking for mathematical data I can't really give you any, because I don't know and aren't good enough at maths to begin even calculating such things.
solrac lara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-04-03 23:43:45 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
That was an incredibly unbroken sentence moving from topic to topic , really quite hypnotic, but ahum.

I believe compared to most other sci-fi franchises EVE is around the middle in terms of firepower. We're not as patheticly outgunned by everyone as Mass Effect 'verse but certainly not as overpowered like say, The Empire from Star Wars where even the most basic starship weapons are in several hundred megaton / gigawatt range.

Now if you were asking for mathematical data I can't really give you any, because I don't know and aren't good enough at maths to begin even calculating such things.

Sorry i will work on puntuation, i was just asking if there is any source that mention the exact firepower of eve ships? like for example,cruiser sized weapons are in megaton or kilotons cause i mean gigajoules are kinda pathethic P
Felter Echerie
Profit Prophets
#4 - 2015-04-04 02:59:40 UTC
eve was never very cientific in it's measurements... don't even... youll just get tired and dissapointed :T
Zura Namee
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-04-06 14:17:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Zura Namee
If you want to cook up a really rough estimate for how powerful EVE guns are, take a (somewhat) known measure like a 1600mm tech 1 steel plate, compare the HP value it gives to the damage the gun of your choice does in one cycle, and extrapolate from there. Other than that, admire the pretty fireworks when a frigate/dessie blows up a dozen dustbunnies with the smallest guns we can fit in space.

Edit: Did a quick napkin math version to give you a rough idea. A fully skilled but unbonused Tachyon II does just enough damage to completely negate a 200mm tech 1 plate in a single shot. Taking the mass of that steel and looking at energy requirements to melt it, we can come up with ~373.5GJ /minimum/ to defeat the armor. Add a little more since we're going to have losses due to plasma blooming off the plate and other debris getting in the way, and you have your baseline figure for weapon damage.
solrac lara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-04-06 17:19:39 UTC
Zura Namee wrote:
If you want to cook up a really rough estimate for how powerful EVE guns are, take a (somewhat) known measure like a 1600mm tech 1 steel plate, compare the HP value it gives to the damage the gun of your choice does in one cycle, and extrapolate from there. Other than that, admire the pretty fireworks when a frigate/dessie blows up a dozen dustbunnies with the smallest guns we can fit in space.

Edit: Did a quick napkin math version to give you a rough idea. A fully skilled but unbonused Tachyon II does just enough damage to completely negate a 200mm tech 1 plate in a single shot. Taking the mass of that steel and looking at energy requirements to melt it, we can come up with ~373.5GJ /minimum/ to defeat the armor. Add a little more since we're going to have losses due to plasma blooming off the plate and other debris getting in the way, and you have your baseline figure for weapon damage.

but what abaut resistances also i read that eve plates are made from diferent materials not jsut stells nano stuff and electronic componentes SO you cant messaure based on that also wouldnt make sense that a weapon like an artillery cannon firing a 3500 mm shell would do so little damage for examepl
Zura Namee
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-04-06 18:10:53 UTC
solrac lara wrote:
Zura Namee wrote:
If you want to cook up a really rough estimate for how powerful EVE guns are, take a (somewhat) known measure like a 1600mm tech 1 steel plate, compare the HP value it gives to the damage the gun of your choice does in one cycle, and extrapolate from there. Other than that, admire the pretty fireworks when a frigate/dessie blows up a dozen dustbunnies with the smallest guns we can fit in space.

Edit: Did a quick napkin math version to give you a rough idea. A fully skilled but unbonused Tachyon II does just enough damage to completely negate a 200mm tech 1 plate in a single shot. Taking the mass of that steel and looking at energy requirements to melt it, we can come up with ~373.5GJ /minimum/ to defeat the armor. Add a little more since we're going to have losses due to plasma blooming off the plate and other debris getting in the way, and you have your baseline figure for weapon damage.

but what abaut resistances also i read that eve plates are made from diferent materials not jsut stells nano stuff and electronic componentes SO you cant messaure based on that also wouldnt make sense that a weapon like an artillery cannon firing a 3500 mm shell would do so little damage for examepl


There were zero resistances factored in, this was a test against the plate itself, not a ship with the plate.
solrac lara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-04-06 19:14:07 UTC
Zura Namee wrote:
solrac lara wrote:
Zura Namee wrote:
If you want to cook up a really rough estimate for how powerful EVE guns are, take a (somewhat) known measure like a 1600mm tech 1 steel plate, compare the HP value it gives to the damage the gun of your choice does in one cycle, and extrapolate from there. Other than that, admire the pretty fireworks when a frigate/dessie blows up a dozen dustbunnies with the smallest guns we can fit in space.

Edit: Did a quick napkin math version to give you a rough idea. A fully skilled but unbonused Tachyon II does just enough damage to completely negate a 200mm tech 1 plate in a single shot. Taking the mass of that steel and looking at energy requirements to melt it, we can come up with ~373.5GJ /minimum/ to defeat the armor. Add a little more since we're going to have losses due to plasma blooming off the plate and other debris getting in the way, and you have your baseline figure for weapon damage.

but what abaut resistances also i read that eve plates are made from diferent materials not jsut stells nano stuff and electronic componentes SO you cant messaure based on that also wouldnt make sense that a weapon like an artillery cannon firing a 3500 mm shell would do so little damage for examepl


There were zero resistances factored in, this was a test against the plate itself, not a ship with the plate.

thats rather dissapointing hahahaha
Zura Namee
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-04-06 19:46:14 UTC
If a dev feels like weighing in with the composition of the plate, we could come up with a better figure. Since mine was based on pure steel though, we can assume it's much lower than the actual number, but probably the correct order of magnitude (I hope)
solrac lara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-04-06 23:00:17 UTC
Would be great to read a devs opinion. hehe
YuuKnow
The Scope
#11 - 2015-04-18 17:10:14 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
Eve's tech is so far past anything that equates to common science that its probably not worth the exercise. Hard near-current sci-fi like Arthur C Clarke generally minimizes the fantasy as much as possible, but just about everything Eve is based on breaks fundamental laws of physics, even Einstein's laws, so what math you want to apply is arbitrary.

There is a a sci-fi concept called The Kzinti Lesson (http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacegunexotic.php#id--Propulsion_Systems) that states that any ability to provide the propulsion power of immense quantities described would necessarily be able to be create a super destruction weapon. So it would be consistent that all Eve's ships have the ability to create planet destroying power.

yk
solrac lara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-04-18 22:45:16 UTC  |  Edited by: solrac lara
YuuKnow wrote:
Eve's tech is so far past anything that equates to common science that its probably not worth the exercise. Hard near-current sci-fi like Arthur C Clarke generally minimizes the fantasy as much as possible, but just about everything Eve is based on breaks fundamental laws of physics, even Einstein's laws, so what math you want to apply is arbitrary.

There is a a sci-fi concept called The Kzinti Lesson (http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacegunexotic.php#id--Propulsion_Systems) that states that any ability to provide the propulsion power of immense quantities described would necessarily be able to be create a super destruction weapon. So it would be consistent that all Eve's ships have the ability to create planet destroying power.

yk

how powerfulll are the eve ships propulsion engines sorry im not that versed in physics just another lil question titans weight 2 million ton, So how much energy would be needed to move a 2.2million tons object at 80m/s which is the speed that titans normally move.
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#13 - 2015-04-18 23:08:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Arline Kley
solrac lara wrote:
how powerfulll are the eve ships propulsion engines sorry im not that versed in physics just another lil question titans weight 2 million ton, So how much energy would be needed to move a 2.2million tons object at 80m/s which is the speed that titans normally move.


Somewhere in the region of 7 gigajoules of energy. Which equates to 1.95 megawatt hours of power.


That can be powered by a tiny nuclear reactor =/

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
solrac lara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-04-18 23:13:16 UTC
Arline Kley wrote:
solrac lara wrote:
how powerfulll are the eve ships propulsion engines sorry im not that versed in physics just another lil question titans weight 2 million ton, So how much energy would be needed to move a 2.2million tons object at 80m/s which is the speed that titans normally move.


Somewhere in the region of 7 gigajoules of energy.

Well thats not alot how do you calc that
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#15 - 2015-04-18 23:26:56 UTC
solrac lara wrote:
Well thats not alot how do you calc that


its Energy (J) = 1/2 mass (kg) x acceleration (m/s²)

the maths I posted above are a bit out.. I didn't calc it properly (forgive me its way past midnight here..)

2.0222666667 GWh (gigawatthour) to power an Avatar titan at 80/ms at base weight.

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
solrac lara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-04-18 23:35:54 UTC
Arline Kley wrote:
solrac lara wrote:
Well thats not alot how do you calc that


its Energy (J) = 1/2 mass (kg) x acceleration (m/s²)

the maths I posted above are a bit out.. I didn't calc it properly (forgive me its way past midnight here..)

2.0222666667 GWh (gigawatthour) to power an Avatar titan at 80/ms at base weight.

The same way you calc kinetic energy
so 2.2 million tons that is like 2.2 billion kgs and is moving at 80ms/sec
1/2 2200000000x6400*2 =7.04e*12 joules
Soren Moller
#17 - 2015-04-19 17:31:39 UTC
There is a continuum between hard science fiction and soft science fiction. The EVE universe is not as soft as something like Star Wars that is not even science fiction but is sword and sorcery fantasy set in space. But EVE is still relatively soft in the sense that the narrative and theme always trump scientific concerns. So questions of this sort may be amusing conversation pieces but there will never be satisfying answers to them.

"At some point, if you know enough science and if you want to continue to enjoy SF, you just have to learn to stop caring." -- Matt Austern

This is true about you.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#18 - 2015-04-19 21:07:29 UTC
solrac lara wrote:
how powerfulll are the eve ships propulsion engines sorry im not that versed in physics just another lil question titans weight 2 million ton, So how much energy would be needed to move a 2.2million tons object at 80m/s which is the speed that titans normally move.


Its not the regular drive. Its the warp drives. Theoretically nothing can break the speed of light, so to create drives that can do so easily is impossible to apply any RL math to. If a fiction does have 'faster than light' than you can apply any arbitrary formula you want to as the math doesn't exist.

One can either assume that immense energies are involved, or that there's something more elegant at play. Whichever you want. If immense energy's are involved than a society that can harness those type of energies so easily can probably harness them destructively just a easily. For example, the fission bomb proceeded the more sophisticate nuclear propulsion. And mankind has already mastered fusion detonations far before its learned to control them constructively (ie fusion power plants).

Throw in 'stasis webifiers', 'microwarps' and whal-lah, the 'calculations' are whatever you want them to be.

yk
solrac lara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-04-19 22:30:44 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
solrac lara wrote:
how powerfulll are the eve ships propulsion engines sorry im not that versed in physics just another lil question titans weight 2 million ton, So how much energy would be needed to move a 2.2million tons object at 80m/s which is the speed that titans normally move.


Its not the regular drive. Its the warp drives. Theoretically nothing can break the speed of light, so to create drives that can do so easily is impossible to apply any RL math to. If a fiction does have 'faster than light' than you can apply any arbitrary formula you want to as the math doesn't exist.

One can either assume that immense energies are involved, or that there's something more elegant at play. Whichever you want. If immense energy's are involved than a society that can harness those type of energies so easily can probably harness them destructively just a easily. For example, the fission bomb proceeded the more sophisticate nuclear propulsion. And mankind has already mastered fusion detonations far before its learned to control them constructively (ie fusion power plants).

Throw in 'stasis webifiers', 'microwarps' and whal-lah, the 'calculations' are whatever you want them to be.

yk

So the fact that they use antimatter generators as something trivial means they can weaponize that kind of stuff too
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#20 - 2015-04-20 07:48:37 UTC
solrac lara wrote:
So the fact that they use antimatter generators as something trivial means they can weaponize that kind of stuff too

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Antimatter_Charge_S

But considering one gram of antimatter annihilating with one gram of matter produces 180 terajoules (the equivalent of 42.96 kilotons of TNT) then in that fact EVE is skewed towards "niceness".

That or the anitmatter shells contain mere fragments of the stuff

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
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